[FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] Bump minimum required version of Android to 5.0

[FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] Bump minimum required version of Android to 5.0

[Zhao Zhili]

We don’t have a minimum required version of Android in FFmpeg.
libavdevice/android_camera requires Android 7, Java MediaCodec
requires Android 4.1, and NDK MediaCodec requires Android 5.0.

Without an explicit version, it’s unclear for development and test.

Android 5.0 is released in 2014, is it OK to bump the minimum required
version to Android 5.0, or any other version you prefer?
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] Bump minimum required version of Android to 5.0

[Tomas Härdin]

tor 2024-04-11 klockan 20:16 +0800 skrev Zhao Zhili:
> We don’t have a minimum required version of Android in FFmpeg.
> libavdevice/android_camera requires Android 7, Java MediaCodec
> requires Android 4.1, and NDK MediaCodec requires Android 5.0.
> 
> Without an explicit version, it’s unclear for development and test.
> 
> Android 5.0 is released in 2014, is it OK to bump the minimum
> required
> version to Android 5.0, or any other version you prefer?

Don't we already have stuff that detects the Android version and acts
accordingly? Dropping 4.1 might lessen the maintenance burden though.

I have an old phone (Samsung Galaxy S5) running the most recent
LineageOS possible to install on it (16.0), and that uses Android 9. So
for me bumping to version 5 sounds fine.

Do you have any statistics on Android versions actually in use?

/Tomas
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] Bump minimum required version of Android to 5.0

[Zhao Zhili]

> On Apr 11, 2024, at 21:17, Tomas Härdin <git@haerdin.se> wrote:
> 
> tor 2024-04-11 klockan 20:16 +0800 skrev Zhao Zhili:
>> We don’t have a minimum required version of Android in FFmpeg.
>> libavdevice/android_camera requires Android 7, Java MediaCodec
>> requires Android 4.1, and NDK MediaCodec requires Android 5.0.
>> 
>> Without an explicit version, it’s unclear for development and test.
>> 
>> Android 5.0 is released in 2014, is it OK to bump the minimum
>> required
>> version to Android 5.0, or any other version you prefer?
> 
> Don't we already have stuff that detects the Android version and acts
> accordingly? Dropping 4.1 might lessen the maintenance burden though.

Check Android API level is easy. There is minimum API level requirement
in configure script as far as I know.

> 
> I have an old phone (Samsung Galaxy S5) running the most recent
> LineageOS possible to install on it (16.0), and that uses Android 9. So
> for me bumping to version 5 sounds fine.
> 
> Do you have any statistics on Android versions actually in use?

Search by "Android distribution chart" shows version >= 5.0 is about 99.3%.

> 
> /Tomas
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> ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] Bump minimum required version of Android to 5.0

[Zhao Zhili]

> 在 2024年4月11日，下午9:57，Zhao Zhili <quinkblack@foxmail.com> 写道：
> 
> 
>> 
>> On Apr 11, 2024, at 21:17, Tomas Härdin <git@haerdin.se> wrote:
>> 
>> tor 2024-04-11 klockan 20:16 +0800 skrev Zhao Zhili:
>>> We don’t have a minimum required version of Android in FFmpeg.
>>> libavdevice/android_camera requires Android 7, Java MediaCodec
>>> requires Android 4.1, and NDK MediaCodec requires Android 5.0.
>>> 
>>> Without an explicit version, it’s unclear for development and test.
>>> 
>>> Android 5.0 is released in 2014, is it OK to bump the minimum
>>> required
>>> version to Android 5.0, or any other version you prefer?
>> 
>> Don't we already have stuff that detects the Android version and acts
>> accordingly? Dropping 4.1 might lessen the maintenance burden though.
> 
> Check Android API level is easy. There is minimum API level requirement
> in configure script as far as I know.

I mean there is no minimum API level requirement in configure.

>> 
>> I have an old phone (Samsung Galaxy S5) running the most recent
>> LineageOS possible to install on it (16.0), and that uses Android 9. So
>> for me bumping to version 5 sounds fine.
>> 
>> Do you have any statistics on Android versions actually in use?
> 
> Search by "Android distribution chart" shows version >= 5.0 is about 99.3%.
> 
>> 
>> /Tomas
>> _______________________________________________
>> ffmpeg-devel mailing list
>> ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
>> https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
>> 
>> To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email
>> ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
> 

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] Bump minimum required version of Android to 5.0

[Tomas Härdin]

tor 2024-04-11 klockan 21:57 +0800 skrev Zhao Zhili:
> 
> 
> > On Apr 11, 2024, at 21:17, Tomas Härdin <git@haerdin.se> wrote:
> > 
> > tor 2024-04-11 klockan 20:16 +0800 skrev Zhao Zhili:
> > > We don’t have a minimum required version of Android in FFmpeg.
> > > libavdevice/android_camera requires Android 7, Java MediaCodec
> > > requires Android 4.1, and NDK MediaCodec requires Android 5.0.
> > > 
> > > Without an explicit version, it’s unclear for development and
> > > test.
> > > 
> > > Android 5.0 is released in 2014, is it OK to bump the minimum
> > > required
> > > version to Android 5.0, or any other version you prefer?
> > 
> > Don't we already have stuff that detects the Android version and
> > acts
> > accordingly? Dropping 4.1 might lessen the maintenance burden
> > though.
> 
> Check Android API level is easy. There is [no] minimum API level
> requirement
> in configure script as far as I know.

Would be a good idea to add one

What would dropping 4.1 support actually look like? I presume it would
make the code a lot simpler.

> > I have an old phone (Samsung Galaxy S5) running the most recent
> > LineageOS possible to install on it (16.0), and that uses Android
> > 9. So
> > for me bumping to version 5 sounds fine.
> > 
> > Do you have any statistics on Android versions actually in use?
> 
> Search by "Android distribution chart" shows version >= 5.0 is about
> 99.3%.

Makes me wonder what kind of devices people run that haven't been
updated in 10+ years..

Compare to the recent Debian and Ubuntu support discussion, where we're
considering dropping support for 5 year old releases. Dropping support
for 10 year old ones doesn't sound bad. You're also the one most
involved in Android support, so unless someone else wants to take on
the maintenance burden I say go for it. If downstream apps make a fuss,
they can either take on the work themselves or pay.

/Tomas
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] Bump minimum required version of Android to 5.0

[Nicolas George]

Tomas Härdin (12024-04-12):
> Makes me wonder what kind of devices people run that haven't been
> updated in 10+ years..

The kind of devices that no longer get software updates but the owner
cannot afford to replace.

-- 
  Nicolas George
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] Bump minimum required version of Android to 5.0

[Zhao Zhili]

> On Apr 12, 2024, at 18:50, Tomas Härdin <git@haerdin.se> wrote:
> 
> tor 2024-04-11 klockan 21:57 +0800 skrev Zhao Zhili:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 11, 2024, at 21:17, Tomas Härdin <git@haerdin.se> wrote:
>>> 
>>> tor 2024-04-11 klockan 20:16 +0800 skrev Zhao Zhili:
>>>> We don’t have a minimum required version of Android in FFmpeg.
>>>> libavdevice/android_camera requires Android 7, Java MediaCodec
>>>> requires Android 4.1, and NDK MediaCodec requires Android 5.0.
>>>> 
>>>> Without an explicit version, it’s unclear for development and
>>>> test.
>>>> 
>>>> Android 5.0 is released in 2014, is it OK to bump the minimum
>>>> required
>>>> version to Android 5.0, or any other version you prefer?
>>> 
>>> Don't we already have stuff that detects the Android version and
>>> acts
>>> accordingly? Dropping 4.1 might lessen the maintenance burden
>>> though.
>> 
>> Check Android API level is easy. There is [no] minimum API level
>> requirement
>> in configure script as far as I know.
> 
> Would be a good idea to add one
> 
> What would dropping 4.1 support actually look like? I presume it would
> make the code a lot simpler.

I can remove a lot of dlsym by link directly. And it will be more clear to
know how to handle Android version dependent API when adding new 
code.

> 
>>> I have an old phone (Samsung Galaxy S5) running the most recent
>>> LineageOS possible to install on it (16.0), and that uses Android
>>> 9. So
>>> for me bumping to version 5 sounds fine.
>>> 
>>> Do you have any statistics on Android versions actually in use?
>> 
>> Search by "Android distribution chart" shows version >= 5.0 is about
>> 99.3%.
> 
> Makes me wonder what kind of devices people run that haven't been
> updated in 10+ years..

Like TV and OTT box. I know those devices exist, but I highly doubt that
anyone would attempt to run FFmpeg 7.1 on it.

Android toolchains also drop support of Android 4.4 now.

"KitKat (APIs 19 and 20) is no longer supported.”

https://developer.android.com/ndk/downloads/revision_history

> 
> Compare to the recent Debian and Ubuntu support discussion, where we're
> considering dropping support for 5 year old releases. Dropping support
> for 10 year old ones doesn't sound bad. You're also the one most
> involved in Android support, so unless someone else wants to take on
> the maintenance burden I say go for it. If downstream apps make a fuss,
> they can either take on the work themselves or pay.
> 
> /Tomas
> _______________________________________________
> ffmpeg-devel mailing list
> ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
> 
> To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email
> ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] Bump minimum required version of Android to 5.0

[Tomas Härdin]

fre 2024-04-12 klockan 19:23 +0800 skrev Zhao Zhili:
> 
> 
> > On Apr 12, 2024, at 18:50, Tomas Härdin <git@haerdin.se> wrote:
> > 
> > tor 2024-04-11 klockan 21:57 +0800 skrev Zhao Zhili:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > On Apr 11, 2024, at 21:17, Tomas Härdin <git@haerdin.se> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > tor 2024-04-11 klockan 20:16 +0800 skrev Zhao Zhili:
> > > > > We don’t have a minimum required version of Android in
> > > > > FFmpeg.
> > > > > libavdevice/android_camera requires Android 7, Java
> > > > > MediaCodec
> > > > > requires Android 4.1, and NDK MediaCodec requires Android
> > > > > 5.0.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Without an explicit version, it’s unclear for development and
> > > > > test.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Android 5.0 is released in 2014, is it OK to bump the minimum
> > > > > required
> > > > > version to Android 5.0, or any other version you prefer?
> > > > 
> > > > Don't we already have stuff that detects the Android version
> > > > and
> > > > acts
> > > > accordingly? Dropping 4.1 might lessen the maintenance burden
> > > > though.
> > > 
> > > Check Android API level is easy. There is [no] minimum API level
> > > requirement
> > > in configure script as far as I know.
> > 
> > Would be a good idea to add one
> > 
> > What would dropping 4.1 support actually look like? I presume it
> > would
> > make the code a lot simpler.
> 
> I can remove a lot of dlsym by link directly. And it will be more
> clear to
> know how to handle Android version dependent API when adding new 
> code.
> 
> > 
> > > > I have an old phone (Samsung Galaxy S5) running the most recent
> > > > LineageOS possible to install on it (16.0), and that uses
> > > > Android
> > > > 9. So
> > > > for me bumping to version 5 sounds fine.
> > > > 
> > > > Do you have any statistics on Android versions actually in use?
> > > 
> > > Search by "Android distribution chart" shows version >= 5.0 is
> > > about
> > > 99.3%.
> > 
> > Makes me wonder what kind of devices people run that haven't been
> > updated in 10+ years..
> 
> Like TV and OTT box. I know those devices exist, but I highly doubt
> that
> anyone would attempt to run FFmpeg 7.1 on it.

Yeah this is what I'm getting at. Sure people may be running old
devices, but are they running programs on them that have been compiled
recently? That's going to be a fraction of that remaining 0.7%,
assuming there are devs updating apps that use FFmpeg for such old
devices.

> Android toolchains also drop support of Android 4.4 now.
> 
> "KitKat (APIs 19 and 20) is no longer supported.”
> 
> https://developer.android.com/ndk/downloads/revision_history

So at some point it won't even be possible to compile against 4.1
without digging into the archives? That's preservationist work. I'm
sure they can dig into our git history as well if they're so desperate
to compile old things.

/Tomas
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] Bump minimum required version of Android to 5.0

[Matthieu Bouron]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 2:17 PM Zhao Zhili <quinkblack@foxmail.com> wrote:
>
> We don’t have a minimum required version of Android in FFmpeg.
> libavdevice/android_camera requires Android 7, Java MediaCodec
> requires Android 4.1, and NDK MediaCodec requires Android 5.0.
>
> Without an explicit version, it’s unclear for development and test.
>
> Android 5.0 is released in 2014, is it OK to bump the minimum required
> version to Android 5.0, or any other version you prefer?

I'm OK with bumping the requirements to 5.0, especially if that helps
with maintenance (I dont have nor work with devices < 8.1).
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