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Mon, 07 Jul 2025 00:18:48 +0200 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2025 00:18:46 +0200 From: Alexander Strasser To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] Introducing policies regarding "AI" contributions Message-ID: References: <5020747.31r3eYUQgx@basile.remlab.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <5020747.31r3eYUQgx@basile.remlab.net> X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:WJU2vumT+CUBfvznVTHlcn8/2zTm6ACjl8TaYPc3X39XK3PpX8r rNgpNfp6jwPJnzq3t0wpqTbcnf653LaMtHrivBOnG9vpJJhHW4oRMczeUoKpoXVrPnhy8R5 qHDze0wGX76CjFjtWGxVEwuZLZGqO790enlOar/p64blpcoaglAldixn+m5sCg+/j2QcpUQ HK+B1AEJ4uDT47m702H/g== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:Z4t7Fx8HKTo=;E86gIIJQe2pKxhdjXhHTaOVnmcX lao3Z+Hy4fLDPV8b1RzpVcgZnfV5pDgaaFxxlXrfKXF+AOK686vUMQewGSgeMGjXqkiT9AnBs W/ELz4nN78fJMSSu9duDWvALgYOEQm+h1q96+DOt4+goX67Ltff1L0PvSpSZDBTvPlhBq3IOS w3X9COAQc+RcLxrhFc4Dwhxlivomaew+pWN/VQKBQyuqTilxWEd5CQSukbtLBZJ29fvckR+k4 UvX0422K1X8nZnOykkUrnVxYC9lb7UB2e+UnI0VuIkfheIUkmvn0Hy9hhp5agmWS/1YYnu65r /sZrIBYztlfcTLcCeq3kEOfkB75KG5sE5cgVIfbcaIDJIjEZqczG/bEHAu5FqQGdzZA5isfP0 fdI1GDeoh+uTGONSNPyHmZMG1+kLMLAwcPN1MaySvrS7TlkUwgkaYPHTOX8pYvzhmNwtDwHXM muVKaFUROgfvHJ4DEcH8PIWUiHXr9v12SMw4AwlSdx/zMZdVydKbDe20w6Dem9YcpKStkFClu Jd+VZD+ezKJpWGOvM9msgqpeEhQ0QOhoXCokZCAbswFp6uaCTy6j3Onfac/pFoFrUMYi7go3+ 7bVKvThVsAIggaNJ11QUKuqjeWRP2x5/oOV9jmlQs7ahp2JkSuNKnsyXvXLoKTg+7a2Jfvl6L lhEWP/LFyzYi470yvUBR/zs4h5ScQaqGscbzd3csU+flkHkuayJbakAj8G0Z7NGGwxXpl92b2 jWidFH1I/MncBhCT2MTnIVY1A4IiLCRB8NM4lehyy20DtnW+NXYbO1Y1Pq4SkCEqpW4so7x+d EUkVFwoNmSJkH4m74snWWNjOIPv9H+AbxN2lc0PDCGMBGX7Nj2aDgR5sv3AUONzX4Tk58iPiK bijAbYpUZH3iAzKTiUIvsh3Ve6Rda2p74rWg/pMx0PM/U3wj2LU1Jig+yPA9HO2/X23nLdflW +F69VdnKZn8w7uE1Zui0TIGVReVHQ3y+3tj7QWyPUR9arfBrNwgEdYMBZHvCHZ0PBmIbqwAAv 0A+bvldk18AL7Lyc/8KIlmKvzr5Y0j68eOECsaz69XoF5SqFLuBiR6byh5mezNUV9xPVTKZv6 sJ4pGeJenqvXO0Jawf4YDxurXmQ1U+1P6JrntWwzsTG4NdOEM6xYW0HeS6b7OrMuqC/D5NYdR aObaz4yYFCWBLp8cCIpgFHbZoi6ZBZ1WyEv8H8napg37isk0EiFmOcqv86As9qHDZd+KumVJn sWUvw7r7XIyyBuAPVP/uCOq4butILuIbXQFw6IgwDpQ/uT2gHcV+Fcxqs0+a/RfXYodZsAN9p OhLAspxn6QXx52gRcz+y0WnFG2alA8iEbQ2SUqVh/qojVhp/JNIXQdwQEV4m2NQRBRBFTbp0p CQoC0GD3OFf6dnGVVKTRc00uF+ubGdSHAOhCuEzAj0zdRvpa0uTPptt5vXTW0h80zTZS/fBw8 46vslJu38oUWJNfEzr6IIPPfRUdnLe5vZQ6uIrfu1/j1XhixZloKLao0nrQmOR9iUmRFu4moB wsQrwdDBYn2dx54pMmBioR1tzGxz9deEPDVzpM/iXfsGEXELotXumNDbSnAN5qeJeHMRzoy8m b5Z14RQ5aQucx1Ax1zf0zxJcoHsJHKtuIonV9hqG8OIjDsyMdQhwDj20bvKrJSNN3IqVPhnkC fL67jJ1HGMJrINEZbJCnhTf37ooe3Wq/AlSBz56hUXxL6nejJUFHy8eC6aW+zUPvFHIkZX8Uy XuALyMwJ/VknJIF5hDYG70qz3vWNMc2ljgVV/9XBUDzFCoUPkiT4lPn5haHXXw/uBxmeuX15+ /GPAcEA7CFHgIdfM9ENkUsJIprSPrLJUwIh9jS3wI1kPSq6xyZs0WKiu3h4aIqyMJupa65a8Z t6jmYKzR/ITp9PR+HcmEJGznAsuFQwzTUHCVViTTHHsByWEZmUczNewpQV//e85UqfhhxHZV4 VbkczjaOpgf7C7C8CiZLlzQjUap4toqi2fHVR1QhHXi8eERcvptNYexRVwZyj2gf1U5DGYv+w VTIC6PtPv5J8pba+MY3CQG6ZuaGl6gRk03Hy1zYygv2O3ZMmfU9iGWl665BAx1ZyzDiNaJthA dxHpNouxpKPue9f70gBwy07pk08qo9oze6L4KPkX9h8LLdevNTR6ZhKoR6cQTXitPtMSQ6nuH uuPQRA67/xqJ9f1EeaupL5ZUYAu0rOxL227zDec0agcd+rwBtWwu0ytWIXC0KMCnSezAvR6sc 7WRPTqjw2Sc0Pc/Xv2IGsZb7kincjKKPURjpHvpFqOtRrXK9FNGO29iS0K2rExQxjgUNneWJg Jo39PeK66UZtepQvYCOKQDL2E+ZNqfbLSPwqKhH9LZKXsIRpwZ1par3U8Rrge9xiG+oyqOed3 8EzA6TAcHSpzhHVBjNaIdmyOEI/3re0c+loTMkT9xejTQtuqeiXZbdkdSqOsQ/ZqM/JhBgxT3 v1PmVTYK2pFrllYJJYCe4O8FuzhR5rTZNd/rB364YAA6180SoknVCtVH/7xOGQ/OS9lNo1WcY r6JLFVfd12j/4SJ8/oZ9XPw1XeSf/M09RhSuZtuNhyFe916Ii8Bnhtp6iFsS9/lIJftteH4Bb rpZxxOPrZfaAnUIo0Bcsnbib0VRgE1uxvrsa5uLJHBDYlc1fBvc6VloNJISlmESLVkkgLEqVH zkK6hkue5+Bd109b5wNRSUurkB5x8hvglVrd8DzCfTZ1nKfNLXqEJLcmquuGJF0l/4DIbMX6/ JJ4XL8WOYCjVLuHzuZuT24IU+qwGrUCN4v9s6k+RcI9EpN7wrZeUioNtEfn8VgY0LVzhLZ28I 6h2H/9d/F3dQhVMq82Rtypt5OScdoNGRKiYjri0L+q3Rftd65P/Ui8DmiBQ54r4f+UV9sjjKb BEzmxzpMhFQv1O0xwTNYzE/NEwYARFux1Ivw1aArTXXtAvTNB0lFr41pwGn0NpJu6/tNbUUOL VegrT4LZ9h35PEf+wcZaCuLohtREFmPtNx7mw8JuM5YFdjvtE1V33pEQSSr49riE7f5aWaAj+ Txd7LfcuXREA8rKl0vgbrRYwFRYNBZxwJ+wzGnp2pscyES2JuSVbYbgzCxRFMyEvKKqiGw3Wp Whb20MKYcclt2sWeuFGwn+x6MrFtX3sw8HLMEHz9St6HwpHYOR3yud+Ms7OWngvhheDoMsYV0 02w4hCQdmwezTX+dMbu2VGE6PPgDk4sSq0myWwHdd0VG219ZBEALvUN2uOboaR9gS3+12h2ON gqLyexjJfXsrl+B60Bz0Sa/9x57TVijQbGN+c8FgI116i9r/nun9lv5+AkbjekdJpuhaJBZR7 yLM1Bx4ZQMshXCQisnhKjvVlp89G/Qg09WG9hUSye8w8+rGbRw= On 2025-07-05 14:20 +0300, R=E9mi Denis-Courmont wrote: > Le tiistaina 1. hein=E4kuuta 2025, 13.58.23 It=E4-Euroopan kes=E4aika Al= exander=20 > Strasser via ffmpeg-devel a =E9crit : > > (...) I want this thread to start a discussion, that eventually leads > > to a policy about submitting and integrating "AI" generated content. >=20 > Well, you can define a policy and/or make a public statement on FFmpeg.o= rg, but=20 > as others said, just like we can't prevent someone misattributing their= =20 > contributions and violating copyrights, we can't credibly prevent (mis)u= se of=20 > LLMs to generate code. Yes, that's what I had in mind. At least it provides a place where we could point people to when we detect such submissions. Also I believe it will help on its own as far as people find it and read it. > There is also a problem of definition. While I don't personally use comp= uter=20 > assistance, I think it's fine to use language servers to automatically g= enerate=20 > or suggests boilerplate, possible contextual completions, etc. While thi= s sort=20 > of technology predates LLMs and is clearly distinct from it **at the mom= ent**,=20 > it's going to be hard to define "AI" and where to draw a line. I don't think this has the same problems. My intention was to cover "AI" in the current form where it means LLMs trained on a huge corpus of code under many licenses and probably a lot without license at at all. > Ultimately, I think you need to define the problem(s) as far as FFmpeg-d= evel is=20 > concerned. Potential copyright violations are not new, and I think the c= urrent=20 > policies and license terms are adequate, regardless of AI. >=20 > Low quality patches are also not really a new problem, and they can be= =20 > rejected with the current processes too. >=20 > *Maybe* LLM usage will (willingly or unwittingly) lead to a denial of se= rvice=20 > attacks on the review capacity and motivation of the FFmpeg-devel, TC an= d GA=20 > membership, but that remains highly speculative, and I think we don't ne= ed to=20 > solve that what-if problem yet. And again, this attack does not necessar= ily=20 > need an LLM to be carried. I fear that could happen. In general the usage of LLMs for codegen mostly shifts the line of work in an unfavourable way :( It also makes it possible with little effort to create a lot of code. Code in itself is not really valuable though. Having people that understand the code and maintain it are! I agree that we might not need to react to that ahead of time, but in general the review capacity in FFmpeg is too low since a long time. So I guess it's better to watch closely. Best regards, Alexander --===============4297989062781070385== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe". --===============4297989062781070385==--