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Fri, 04 Jul 2025 01:31:20 +0200 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2025 01:31:19 +0200 From: Alexander Strasser To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] Introducing policies regarding "AI" contributions Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:GJT3bLD6Jm8cdXcFYxoxjf35as3/NVSFP8Pxs3YKiMWS2o1KEJV JqqtXqiRmbNwkQFo+ddm+bSvAFRTHVFOukmyYqq47/3RZ24wGGb/IHGG1IGHg4uWRtVKawF 0I2sQYlUvPAFaTIRFs0nbeAodv4dIK3+lvQ9y3yForLAMovBjG2tDzJPl01njHpHimbG1/V 9Wq1Db2LWEqbGJNR0SpBg== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:ycdvd1kdWAI=;8jClqLM9wbKfUCU1u7i2WD6C1Jp UyqkWzQMvi5pY5vPpZvz2xI5rQStahi3v97OSBywqaq9zdA4cUwWiLnC+oCsrQrWf941DH1Xa egqRp22yCH/kmxUqGLYgO3+2XUJC65l0Xh5CK2K5GlWBk6mNC6piVuYseC64ouNArejnd1RPk DJrKGPTR+HeZ+6m/OLC3iQ2nIc9ExpphUNTBJUiMZGyF4XNXQloJkyedSNeO7QVEg6bBIgkDX HMMFEnL6MVYewhLi8siQWeTY9TjQmPetWy3Tf/hULNr5mEWYgP1wxMWijTd27fmliC3Y0O9F3 tDh2f6RroVXlx9xWH4EeF1MG68wSZKVxYR05JtVj93wBQZcOsKWPmBA29+XrAzvb8R5bqsozz JYiJkWItpRsL+Ezkdme3JsF6hRl/FHipsep25bZNHeJm+vf7FRulVbof+LgSkLX4m+G5XqcPx L3WbKLox/6p4l56YZxMlioy5OLiuLOSSF/6F+f2vla0NMA1DXjQxSTPCKODjvY8tLAQ0NUQr1 2Wp0xgbmDFtmAEZsYu/Y+odt1mOmoEnpyd6pA/JhSTcjarFy2yCPtTogUddqAnpapnX22zaO9 ziInbOpBvNQB/Y854o5BvOdgB6XLzBYd6/jtGs4R+1kxmOezvecpV+ZDkcz1cWawtHsaP4EdO tncUkgW3FagxpmfjflK8XctIzO31J8fbXLfix6j0rYd+qSDoaZfCMiUUproCFLgUX9wVko7UM gmzWqjLj+d0473fi3JydHAQs1IpjQpS/QcgKshKBfblm8LYJpsOTcN5NuDQvpaKFizlxwgDC1 Q85DIC7+UMni+2EKqwvAI+8XywnN6Ni3rpnzZ48UjQz5liZEzpuSGQ7xwi6CJjXv9NJXv4jJS 1Dd5Lg+oRzkK75nlhd66s3G5pRBwIihe0tWj5pOnDTB41YIGyXacfDFItY3fWb/wilP0FQtwy X32w5sDiGinKbQEk5dBBXqRkEusrZoIkgeTmx0Drpm6nlOPivEbjbssxu57DvB9PTqVTFZ+K4 shmS78RcN6DjKoG2cNNNm04ZNZ5Nv96VrfojrtUa3BhOB+tVqIcRmWvazRwEXjfB0pqafSVKF BQ11ebU+9lLKVeBrUcKjsTeiKqWdR5iwitwhFud8pvfreo3jnQeIn4QDxEYLc11so0Czg8kLS 6wQKCiRjAeH2v06CBlFd5U31XlmCE8dDIdiwMg1hQ1uWnGkjY4PTZ86jV9up85pnIAGg3UKgm qvgRrP0YnXMWILLJ926WLOIfYWGbz5mdnazH6H8iLPeCcJb82VJlc4HnqN8m5k3hrFs1HlIeM 0nxqzTqflVINzcZ2VMzBLulIQPE1Z+Y/aYZQSKfJ9jDFAiVhjNHZJsTa4iBnHalurW6SIPTjP SS5dfGEkaFZ+Mo0uJoFrevMrtzWLjHST4oo8W5xBHGLjwY5VOJLhQ5oUONvE52RuAHqUDCEEF BLZJBROFURtu2tZ0nsOEZd0PlTjv9SW1MtLNmRojvlAOB1SxM7VqzKzlrVBakr6DXOKU1fImi 47FqnJNsEOLIFVHFpVj6Ig5+f7X5BC2yXQJMiKZqaqgMx99tcVskGPPCA/RfIn3s4p2geMF8x So0RHIMaIVHsyuYZ3E0kXB3is0G3xexVEeVNIi/WxCEL+cWOyKjh7NI4AdA8uS1Yov6OaVG+P yqJzPnRfIPAW/xmCmz6dEeMIc0pyA6qsVrw1y+2lCcLP8dKm5bvt/5W1AVLrExgXgZtgMJCNS c+SPkJQn+dUcP0i6H2erexN6M++XDZXLLGwlOFc/SxBhRrVe0TBLtgU/oj5Favm2q1dD7c5em 2OG/bZZDYR1QJFYu/CVhgl/VH3JRhcVKZf3NggGHP3bGXyjsHV3XJeNK/2aFTazApW7l0Gq5A xd+3sGIciwsd74exZU9dgZcMP+rPccI/e67EzfllgRzJWqJZodD4ZyVT+emIjia2TeUEhypJw m5KgdXO1cMmFtPwSIcLxTHusf3sXBFLu6zALVaOqXjyae8KKgn9yJtfk+X/k0BPPD21zwJ4qX 5J3ktS0XOO+fugj2dOmuLmCZRYn1Blf/qYPIsiQODQmEpnMKU708pkK/dDiSu6He3NgURpCPG yEhhHk0aya5j6V0hBq634dH9oZymqNaNWf6onCcUv/Zs8UAmwSanPFChLX7w+UTLsZYREJykj 1Q1onAVb1MDVLMgaUzpCRdG+0cr1+2aZhCcbt0Xrdnc/BOO/I5ggMYroW9b7aaUh3xKkWJmXP eLPKsX2uPVc8Nc2xD4H2aQpIHIN7vFji7beIkKKFEDgc7YdlibrWJ5xNpX3bqYwaFIzZv4oFd YDn/gRbLtL+S4vFxetcrq1n9/H29QYJ/Th5/JTkBu9vDM0snCQMH3GQLER1bqbLyaq8N3zqHA zpBXhHbG6OcQegbT2erjxiwtJ4JsKwtlki7gveWif1PGQ9ILk658PISn7W5CAndU9ibU6sdTE byjbtUdVBU6woCsWGU7dKj9+dMJlDaKV/3EMXw+jQUP0V4jiZ3EFJM8QCjHtod+hWLR0jyy4T c/BsEBr5OKqf+ahX11mXKCFxleDJ7fHTD1cXqeoGPZE+M6MYf5rgHX767Iqf0NNYLccFrjTkc JP0v1/tKkN96WgY6CtFRNG+ibRTUUf0ZtvKV8wCBmburrg0LhqHjgT/nWuVtb8AO1IOGzo3gN +q8kE0PU/58SIhMAnDHsIcKIkYZEAIRyNfx8dcGHIpVcvWLhH4Nd28/JEmI1ys5KNtVQAxbEd QCosBUKyn/EDJGL//rOtfSmWJhQzLT8wV71t0HYNrKiotF0w1zOc7wKeCxp+tKP5YUzSKvTnO pEdlD6xxC2ggOzLXcT0l9Ie54Bk8ST5FumpwtDzCZ/5DYTMAHdQyBOodhkAbOWENTLg8Z5K72 HuWQYQ9CChHZy0JJ6Z8fMEl1IrpR/LqgX1o7YViITKP/9l2dtq8TAj9+xBaboamrZ7SGgyJEJ pAqxtGCb0mEnSy0YPfdNXmmmDS06OZjZBepVc4yjqcr6DFOmx50DP+QPxvC4QyZqPgtgtC7mu RCbm2DFctWFSRhGNzcdks6RB9qd17PUQzHSPABZpd8Bsh6BmFyeTGmxZnmjxg7CUUWtWNDNyf YzUcSohzhcRqTj1zV5WyF8A9PQNdBy1WzvjaiznBQ9XYsEO9ojRYT1vX7AF664DQ20gPlqPsf BxPMgTevIHmSPOIKVJEI3hd1N+uX2Fp2cIpSqVxmtqoQA81aYIpgSSYbsq7G3R54aaDD2g+oN L/REbluLGNddCXAu5lqRw3rH5npmRLtylAh/+fsicaAnmIniyadBaXVbKbcQti/ILCAomyIT6 onnMu8L0vpTRfqVg3H/qQ3W2kODlK/J4+UHJ23pE1RVN2iQQRE= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2025-07-01 14:44 +0200, Kacper Michajlow wrote: > On Tue, 1 Jul 2025 at 12:58, Alexander Strasser via ffmpeg-devel [...] > > > > I do not like the branding of the LLMs as AI, thus I will for now > > continue to call it "AI" in quotes. I'm open for better terms. > > > > It was just yesterday brought up on IRC in #ffmpeg-devel that there > > was at least one, marked attempt to include "AI" generated code[1]. > > > > At least I would say that this particular patch series was rejected, > > but there were was no explicit discussion and clear statement about > > "AI" generated content; especially code. > > > > Thus I want this thread to start a discussion, that eventually leads > > to a policy about submitting and integrating "AI" generated content. >=20 > I don't think labeling code as "AI" matters that much. Let's ignore > licensing/legal issues for now. OK, but I really don't think we can ignore the legal consequences for FFmpeg, as it is Open Source software, and we would put all users of FFmpeg, individuals and companies, at risk. > What's important is the code itself and its quality. It doesn't matter > how it was created. Whether by a human, "AI" or something else. The > key is the final product. "AI" is just a tool, and like any tool, it > can be used well or poorly. How you use it may be completely different > between "operators". >=20 > I think the "AI" label exists because the code that LLMs produce is > often incomplete, low quality, and a pile of spaghetti that somehow > works for a single use case. but is far from being a sane, production > ready implementation. Anyone who has used these tools knows their > limitations and what they can or cannot do. >=20 > That said, if "AI" code means low quality code, then by all means, it > should be rejected. This applies to human, alien, or "AI" generated > code. There shouldn't be a different metric for "AI" code. If "AI" > (and its "operator") produces high quality code, there's no reason to > reject it. >=20 > After all, how can you even detect "AI" code? If the code, regardless > of who or what wrote it, follows project guidelines and is overall > high quality, that's all that matters. I kind of agree that good code is good code, but it's not enough. Important is also having people around that truly understand the good code. To find out if it is truly good code someone needs to review it very deeply, which is extra hard if it is "AI" generated code as it tends to look very plausible; which could waste a lot of time for the people looking at it and reviewing it. This also diminishes the actual value of the use of "AI" in the first place. Taking that for granted there is the open question for submissions by maintainers (with git push access), who could submit "AI" generated code and push it themselves after a considerable push warning. > P.S. I don't like those "This code was fully made by an LLM" > statements and the like. Who cares? Maybe some investor who's pushing > this. But from a technical point of view, there's no difference. After > all, you don't start your patchset by saying, "This code was written > in Vim with on Arch Linux, on an ergonomic split > keyboard, with an XYZ monitor.". [...] Thanks for your feed back! Greetings, Alexander --===============3839914543259228269== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe". --===============3839914543259228269==--