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Fri, 04 Jul 2025 01:14:12 +0200 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2025 01:14:11 +0200 From: Alexander Strasser To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] Introducing policies regarding "AI" contributions Message-ID: References: <6212824.lOV4Wx5bFT@falbala> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: <6212824.lOV4Wx5bFT@falbala> X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:5ESCc5JLyA2skrxtBSB1YQ+ACv+SxZjPxT52fXkt0x31HtXVRZ6 fxLb5Ii/YUflw6zBVroAsh0kj0W03vCUkOKtiDzAiUIYnYuRXRK7RScUCtif67MXQaoCz02 AGmw8hmvhcSSzHIr+j2E65ag6ql5//v6TQdrjV1tC0qEIjLS7tu5YrCn8+k5TlkIgLyY2Yk IswTAAjwOH0rCiWsPzgjQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:T07hCyn7FlA=;PDKOMyYNtNG9Rr0kF92qkplHopX RQ7VKVECJSYtxnnwEeToRV4NcpnfZG5R7dHp4SXiDj4afajP5d86hBYqou5H3G4PkG9kd0eRN dFBKHBZT0aAQDTO2sHYQi/z4Y/PtJf1L4VtaS5KCfo5vL0IfFefZa0nLyp92b6f+UnH7B8ayU KPKrRUR3k4vjvVMSzZvIvydzQH5d2jNCSglI40tTUtve61DwWMUbGx5Vo1bF8RygRTZLo6EKb 0XnNhrzkkyfa1/GBWzSRAXsirKuksHIoGVU1xoO3yx6WUjPb5/JNPaN8qsTJl0akrRHUMQh+c TsRBSI8Oksnpg6vVF8+fYF0HoLIIjeRBp3cXOPpk19/ld9en/0DtLEyE0iCUtLU47nwPaND6d mT2M6yRo10E48Yt0sV4Wff914+pDatG3rX14VJ2xzgkZzNGuybjeh4wmqWHrQDbVi4kVgfcdM yDDI98yi//P0rgf/CKSgwwShiYZ3yHeaAKbfQt0vGio/Adrx7vqbweK/X5Tw7Y7T7kwgYOnNS cxgpyRjRsCPUSY5c6q163ZmSl3J5QQqkCPFYezTH1KRSSn1yDIe1PvMhZtevFdh63sWXdyh4M winQoqvMeuma68NQ/ETwE68x/N0oVf87QABi0SycBaZKZaqi9RAf3CmGZwyaIb2Y0YYBhGjqR Z3TtueuMxc3CqJfNxbcJXuexOqVfikFVQWqP3rg7qWc/SgPlr511hDGUe0688uayQXK1qPEDV gJk/yOC3f+z/cnVFgQB1yrRZK3cnnz3fcNu5AeBp1bmRmc1LWENR1vLvg1ud61/+dhIGpJJKk tub2Nt6gf6IwPz+G1vemlvj+QQwsay7uByUMFqUP0O5lYrCOQUqNGJscgzxxIhPKCiERREKPD Qc4QcsPew5GlNdOIudTQdjzBpqBrbmzUu6tu9RbFi5uS0VUET7lsPYwRY7eDj9nUcALwtMkM5 C9qGbFSsKOpK1sljILBDwIEFKdZsDVLGNvtWdTQnsFr1/0woXUIFCrTdyec3B2eI212OltTKD zaMyXXjspO201hlRolxz3owAr85A5Lxg260Zcum1f6eHjMd1wzMn7Epg4WIbLLKwUuISQepBM AKpvzIuoGCggmpCjfpSNzL7bK4pLmU/VzaJR8jvw4MCf0RkIplRA3q0ncknWP+I2fX7EbBP+s Ni40Ozme7vtBDAMLIcw0wSHvB89PnuHG3IaDGdRkqPv70KtfQk7MinHzrsI4REq+EG1sr0/b/ Ws0DZXuwz62VIeTcIJc/mXTBMvNtui6QGOKzriC2LPE5Yrsjlca56dPlG0E2BfQupIPYjOzp/ dTJK8sjNYKbnXEBaWjBUbZnrp+Gqh7e2GUOTyXRNHxQATizyZubYLSD9H31Vc4csrYf+vMkLO 6aBWDgUAq71e4pe0ZAVWTQdYmO9pvrG23iKwOEJ9pt5ltonz57kWHO44uRW1xf7QTrpUUd2xu 2OArv0JN/vttd4tHo3IZxLtdNGxHqLyeBgQB9j0hivJliwxZOeKmc1Kfnk683TpMhAvrxD6Dw 1LP68YbSybpiwpZxJR7p7YRIe33ZTbaU+CCYoMo00QPQ9KRa573eWZJ3E8TPSTCw101L62Blq Q/kW/n/w9zplDL6uaZQkbIcMqgTSfTolehEFgFYFZ3JClRP5jDPEP6OWUuf6Uqo8bcGs5mPcA LtcKGB+ZJ9/9dX3GrbjeHDfURUCsBgH0KLrZIajJlkKQTZM+bvCKpKMpIPNAhRB3H9lCM5p5u Yn0Jx2vNlcHH17qf8knNE/9qK15yqZgMzB4Hjr6fiBxhgQvTLVwzQlExbyynr5m+bXybS0mjL fJTvRfBw9IEEB3c/+1cIXmNl358HGBrmiTPj1j9ipVuokpXSp6+RmJDQ5SSo/9UO0oyl4TXcN Q8+Z0JoxYTOaxeV/GQDzHzVjebkrVquWxrY3MOzHnOpwH3QNeLaHch/2eWnZMZkQK4occPHVc RVc1yNmRvYZG0wdNI3aadvhX+nWaRrml7ogD/r+tHCYt6z2nwEhpHgTPyM8ByD9g2dgED8+tC lDu/dCAUn6CrfEXfSLoVdcgxD9HshYXuF8cUHClXIRpR+p6Dd7Nf5F8xEG1QyaneQaMBUxBUz zOoo30xclyTIjplOAk/i1Nv4isDcaIaJsu+oaOJ1f5TrEmBuq0GBykqB0BbYfS6QQITmZQwLD fMrkUhUWrjJHAK5FCqE9nlbuN03sWnmShY7r7vp/sViZ2sRcCLOI+2B2UiE2Cxz+ZE8qeVR03 uArlU/YZ3AMEwmXL7051ycvbORDJpKr5HBXHJLQkGfqCLKCxpluq93X8Olo88HU5FpXlRmRHv TRfp5mO2KzhNrL4pqIGshcUqCFPvZot2wPTioggi1MCaVlS2WnPMIWZYLm1xRwNnRXdQd0E/k C2TKvEPRsy4K+r9nt6eBejX+vOqYeFA9x5k6g5TxhOUt5yo5YygO54XY3BQZeOikhe4NYzE+c 37vWfpa5sXAPexw7vjpPjKq9yN8Uih7I2gIjI6vzVCr2zw4mrPDZvTL62Bd9D3OipdZ+U7cGS 2qO3T2+hLj0lFr4T15hJwtxiiodL0LCmkM8h885+p4nwQGwFSNyvJajCUNbUcQM1f/W6EdGX0 WuiTMS3FTu82/w/1LEQlQoClVhebmAG+Tb9QIQvCuUJhc5xiPWfBBMeEJw6xToyMI3yyH0PcF m3DUXWXfOIBREbCIQa3zOTXvwLcVbRKdBqnT7DDZbcajdhSeH0uJ+37nPj7iQzaQy32c/4NPW XZth3L8AtQyCM6Bmb8y3KhLK4stztYj+s/LI3xAUlsu+xnwN4n3p0yJh4ilCIkzYGi89n6AmS zM+vFLUsYdegINeHjcG3bpvwJxWCaPNCjr4kn85KqKutzwhCX0bkIczw7Izy43fSfP8ucR9eC 9LukrPoS/9NVNxTv97I1YKRKw78bvtmzCzHSqHgLb28I27d3su+ULP67p90DEslfnXsWbO7l4 I5rPXvK1AProKzctZhj2Xc+zg9AlQjXdx0mTfn33EQ6ML+pBOludZj5LaxsChIJkv9jM/tuvv v8GFft+6iMnhvZwekVipFVwW82VbPPKm0o97e3VlwRhe/bLxVdefcb5+VvcdbYCkIo1kDNwg1 e6dUD0VXzka0ML5Tb/q2iuVgQzXQ1VJeroipoiBYVIv+7ugArjzcllVVeJ9sd+br2QM7+nYEa NU6evlZfl7l8RHxmH3+ndeMoqklwqMUexBUAQ1RBhxOa4w4l6B2AO/KNtlvcXPgSaiYJ/ZBgR 5dbmyFEggFcXOH9p+Kwb8QBw/p9/yj+mPifNxcp9gBVYXKDQhm1UWJJ39iuuRr8C5T6V+5r3V GzyYVDzRic5wLPOmLHEWknUAJ6HeafkjkY/4k1IcsQIdxt128iBEHRimL+QoKogJT4DDuTCN4 kBxfxEj+0pZmdFG94AHIu9TXLDv7pyN4GhIZf1jsI= On 2025-07-03 02:16 +0200, Gerion Entrup wrote: > Am Dienstag, 1. Juli 2025, 12:58:23 Mitteleurop=E4ische Sommerzeit schri= eb Alexander Strasser via ffmpeg-devel: [...] > > Thus I want this thread to start a discussion, that eventually leads > > to a policy about submitting and integrating "AI" generated content. > >=20 > > Leaving all ethical issues aside for a moment I still see 2 very big > > problems with AI generated code: > >=20 > > * looks generally plausible but is often subtly wrong > > * leading to more work, regressions and costs > > * which often lands on a different group of people (other > > projects, reviewers, bug finders, bug fixers, etc.) > > * which are sometimes delayed for quite some time increasing > > the costs of fixing them > > * license/copyright violations > > * this might be sometimes a non-issue with small changes > > * but especially for complete components the risk seems high > >=20 > > There is a lot more to the topic and I probably forgot to bring up > > many more important aspects and details. Please feel free to bring > > more things up in the discussion! > >=20 > > There was a preparation in the musl project to put up a policy[2], > > it has not yet been finalized and realized as far as I understand. >=20 > Just to link it here. Remembers me on the Gentoo Linux discussion: > https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/9007c921a8a57655ecb2027eb4be4bff0= 2673af4.camel@zougloub.eu/T/#t > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Council/AI_policy Thanks for the links to the Gentoo discussion and policy! IMHO the discussion and the resulting policy is interesting and maybe something similar would be appropriate for FFmpeg. I also became aware of LLVM policy: https://llvm.org/docs/DeveloperPolicy.html#ai-generated-contributions But I must say I do not like it as much. To cite the most critical part: As such, the LLVM policy is that contributors are permitted to use artificial intelligence tools to produce contributions, provided that they have the right to license that code under the project license. Contributions found to violate this policy will be removed just like any other offending contribution. For "AI" (in the LLM sense) I think it's usually not at all easy to say if one has the right to license the code given it's trained on a huge corpus of copyrighted and particularly licensed code. Anyway they agree on license/copyright concern I raised. As does Gentoo. And the LLVM policy also comes to a similar conclusions, as does Gentoo, regarding waste of project resources: We encourage contributors to review all generated code before sending it for review to verify its correctness and to understand it so that they can answer questions during code review. Reviewing and maintainin= g generated code that the original contributor does not understand is no= t a good use of limited project resources. If anyone has more examples at hand, it would probably be interesting to know and take a look. Best regards, Alexander > > It also brings up the point, that it is not really related to > > recent "AI" tech, but more to the origin of work and its handling. > > Unfortunately "AI" made problems with this a lot more common. > >=20 > >=20 > > Best regards, > > Alexander > >=20 > > 1. https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2025-April/342146.h= tml > > 2. https://www.openwall.com/lists/musl/2024/10/19/3 --===============5896441969899304656== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe". --===============5896441969899304656==--