[FFmpeg-devel] [POLL][VOTE] Preferred Issue Tracker

[FFmpeg-devel] [POLL][VOTE] Preferred Issue Tracker

[Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel]

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Hi everyone

We currently have 2 issue trackers (trac and forgejo),

Previous discussion:
"[RFC] Issue tracker" and "trac ticket statistics"
https://lists.ffmpeg.org/archives/list/ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org/thread/HS46O6K62MHRHJDJC45XLRMR64RE5IB7/#LMXCTJDF5SIUSX43X7YZ4347U5YHWW33

I think there are 2 questions, the first is,
which issue tracker do we want to use going forward?
And the 2nd question is, about migrating tickets.

First lets establish which tracker we want to use going forward.
It seems there where 2 options suggested.

"T", Trac, with a potential future switch to redmine (similar to trac)

"F", Forgejo

The difference is easy to spell out,

Trac has many more features (more powerfull search, votes on tickets, a range of anti spam features, ...)
trac seems not very actively maintained, redmine seems actively maintained

Forgejo avoids maintaining a seperate issue tracker but its fairly basic, also if we ever switch to
a different forge having issues in forgejo is a factor to consider.

About performance/speed, If someone has data on similar hw and similar
 # tickets and # users, this would be interresting, I was unable to
find such comparission.

after this Vote, i intend to start one about "migrating tickets."

All GA members can vote, by replying to this mail on ffmpeg-devel,
duration is 7 days
I will try to vote last, so i can break a tie if we have one.

If you dont vote, then dont complain about the outcome,
If you want something else than what was suggeted in the RFC, you can of course
suggest that too during the vote

thx
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

Those who are best at talking, realize last or never when they are wrong.

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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Preferred Issue Tracker

[Timo Rothenpieler via ffmpeg-devel]

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On 20.10.2025 18:14, Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel wrote:
> Hi everyone
> 
> We currently have 2 issue trackers (trac and forgejo),
> 
> Previous discussion:
> "[RFC] Issue tracker" and "trac ticket statistics"
> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/archives/list/ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org/thread/HS46O6K62MHRHJDJC45XLRMR64RE5IB7/#LMXCTJDF5SIUSX43X7YZ4347U5YHWW33
> 
> I think there are 2 questions, the first is,
> which issue tracker do we want to use going forward?
> And the 2nd question is, about migrating tickets.
> 
> First lets establish which tracker we want to use going forward.
> It seems there where 2 options suggested.
> 
> "T", Trac, with a potential future switch to redmine (similar to trac)
> 
> "F", Forgejo


F for Forgejo, simply because maintaining two applications, specially 
one as old and "brittle" as trac is a pain.

trac currently needs subtantially more server resources than Forgejo, 
while having roughly similar amounts of requests.
It also frequently goes down if the traffic goes too hard, and needs a 
reboot to come back.

I also personally feel like we don't really need/use any of the more 
advanced features in trac. At least I have never looked at votes before, 
or heard anyone talk about them before Forgejo came up.
The only clear advantage it has is the much more refined search, but 
that's something other people have noticed to be lacking in Forgejo as 
well, so there is ongoing effort to improve it.


Also, redmine is not something one can just switch to.
It looks similar, but is an entirely seaprate thing.
There is also no clear way to migrate to it, so it'd be another 
disruptive switch.
There is https://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/wiki/redminemigrate
but it explicitly says the migration from Trac is obsolete and does not 
work.

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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Preferred Issue Tracker

[Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel]

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Hi Timo

On Mon, Oct 20, 2025 at 06:41:17PM +0200, Timo Rothenpieler via ffmpeg-devel wrote:
> On 20.10.2025 18:14, Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel wrote:
> > Hi everyone
> > 
> > We currently have 2 issue trackers (trac and forgejo),
> > 
> > Previous discussion:
> > "[RFC] Issue tracker" and "trac ticket statistics"
> > https://lists.ffmpeg.org/archives/list/ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org/thread/HS46O6K62MHRHJDJC45XLRMR64RE5IB7/#LMXCTJDF5SIUSX43X7YZ4347U5YHWW33
> > 
> > I think there are 2 questions, the first is,
> > which issue tracker do we want to use going forward?
> > And the 2nd question is, about migrating tickets.
> > 
> > First lets establish which tracker we want to use going forward.
> > It seems there where 2 options suggested.
> > 
> > "T", Trac, with a potential future switch to redmine (similar to trac)
> > 
> > "F", Forgejo
> 
> 
> F for Forgejo, simply because maintaining two applications, specially one as
> old and "brittle" as trac is a pain.
> 
> trac currently needs subtantially more server resources than Forgejo, while
> having roughly similar amounts of requests.

> It also frequently goes down if the traffic goes too hard, and needs a
> reboot to come back.

trac never needed a reboot previously, not that i remember.
I do remember when it used sqlite and under load it sometimes showed
database locked errors but it always recovered from this with no action from the admin
at all. just waiting, and i think these errors stoped after tuning sqlite a bit

what exactly did get stuck ?
The current setup is different from what it was


> 
> I also personally feel like we don't really need/use any of the more
> advanced features in trac. At least I have never looked at votes before, or
> heard anyone talk about them before Forgejo came up.

I was just in the recent days using the upvotes as a means to find the
most popular bugs and feature requests for the sponsoring RFC

Sponsoring or not, I want to know which bugs and feature requests affect
our users most.
This does matter. Has nothing to do with sponsoring.
Plain and simple, if i have time to work on something, i would want to
spend it on something that has impact and "sort by vote count" is the simple awnser.


> The only clear advantage it has is the much more refined search, but that's
> something other people have noticed to be lacking in Forgejo as well, so
> there is ongoing effort to improve it.

There also was ongoing work on libavcodec to have a generic "MPEG" encoder
that would handle h264 and later standards ... very long ago


> 
> 
> Also, redmine is not something one can just switch to.
> It looks similar, but is an entirely seaprate thing.
> There is also no clear way to migrate to it, so it'd be another disruptive
> switch.
> There is https://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/wiki/redminemigrate
> but it explicitly says the migration from Trac is obsolete and does not
> work.

IIUC the convert script needs a patch and or a older intermediate redmine

They removed trac import support as everyone who needed it no longer needs it

you can look at for example
https://www.redmine.org/issues/33722

In a comment:
"I already migrated from Trac to Gitlab via Redmine by using this patch."

So the convert worked in the past.

thx

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

When you are offended at any man's fault, turn to yourself and study your
own failings. Then you will forget your anger. -- Epictetus

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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Preferred Issue Tracker

[Lynne via ffmpeg-devel]

On 20/10/2025 18:14, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> Hi everyone
> 
> We currently have 2 issue trackers (trac and forgejo),
> 
> Previous discussion:
> "[RFC] Issue tracker" and "trac ticket statistics"
> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/archives/list/ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org/thread/HS46O6K62MHRHJDJC45XLRMR64RE5IB7/#LMXCTJDF5SIUSX43X7YZ4347U5YHWW33
> 
> I think there are 2 questions, the first is,
> which issue tracker do we want to use going forward?
> And the 2nd question is, about migrating tickets.
> 
> First lets establish which tracker we want to use going forward.
> It seems there where 2 options suggested.
> 
> "T", Trac, with a potential future switch to redmine (similar to trac)
> 
> "F", Forgejo
> 
> The difference is easy to spell out,
> 
> Trac has many more features (more powerfull search, votes on tickets, a range of anti spam features, ...)
> trac seems not very actively maintained, redmine seems actively maintained
> 
> Forgejo avoids maintaining a seperate issue tracker but its fairly basic, also if we ever switch to
> a different forge having issues in forgejo is a factor to consider.
> 
> About performance/speed, If someone has data on similar hw and similar
>   # tickets and # users, this would be interresting, I was unable to
> find such comparission.
> 
> after this Vote, i intend to start one about "migrating tickets."
> 
> All GA members can vote, by replying to this mail on ffmpeg-devel,
> duration is 7 days
> I will try to vote last, so i can break a tie if we have one.
> 
> If you dont vote, then dont complain about the outcome,
> If you want something else than what was suggeted in the RFC, you can of course
> suggest that too during the vote
> 
> thx

F

Its where all developers are, rather than specifically only people who 
deal with issues. I hardly read trac since it has no notifications at 
all about new issues.
The lack of a way to ping devs on trac is a HUGE issue.
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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Preferred Issue Tracker

[Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel]

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Hi Lynne

On Tue, Oct 21, 2025 at 04:28:26AM +0200, Lynne via ffmpeg-devel wrote:
[...]
> with issues. I hardly read trac since it has no notifications at all about
> new issues.

There are multiple ways to do this
1.
    theres a mailing list that contains all changes to trac including new issues
    https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-trac/

    (its a bit in the middle of mailman2 to mailman3 transition ATM)

2.
    https://trac.ffmpeg.org/prefs/notification
    you can here set the exact rules when you should be notified


> The lack of a way to ping devs on trac is a HUGE issue.

just click on "Modify Ticket"
and then add to a "," seperated list in "Cc:"
you can add trac usernames but also email addresses

thx

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

The real ebay dictionary, page 1
"Used only once"    - "Some unspecified defect prevented a second use"
"In good condition" - "Can be repaird by experienced expert"
"As is" - "You wouldnt want it even if you were payed for it, if you knew ..."

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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Preferred Issue Tracker

[Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel]

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On Tue, Oct 21, 2025 at 01:03:26PM +0200, Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel wrote:
> Hi Lynne
> 
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2025 at 04:28:26AM +0200, Lynne via ffmpeg-devel wrote:
> [...]
> > with issues. I hardly read trac since it has no notifications at all about
> > new issues.
> 
> There are multiple ways to do this
> 1.
>     theres a mailing list that contains all changes to trac including new issues
>     https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-trac/
> 
>     (its a bit in the middle of mailman2 to mailman3 transition ATM)
> 
> 2.
>     https://trac.ffmpeg.org/prefs/notification
>     you can here set the exact rules when you should be notified

3. theres also https://trac.ffmpeg.org/timeline which has a link to an RSS feed


[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

If you fake or manipulate statistics in a paper in physics you will never
get a job again.
If you fake or manipulate statistics in a paper in medicin you will get
a job for life at the pharma industry.

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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Preferred Issue Tracker

[Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel]

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Hi all

On Mon, Oct 20, 2025 at 06:14:47PM +0200, Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel wrote:
[...]
> after this Vote, i intend to start one about "migrating tickets."
> 
> All GA members can vote, by replying to this mail on ffmpeg-devel,
> duration is 7 days
> I will try to vote last, so i can break a tie if we have one.
[...]

I ve missed a crucial detail, which only became obvious to me now.
Seeing that people vote based on what they personally prefer,
and 90% of the people seem not to care which bug tracker we use.

The vote is really about "what is better for FFmpeg", not "what you
personally prefer"
I think, more than 2 people should have an oppinon about what is better for FFmpeg.
Especially on something we all will interact and work with for years to come,
like our issue tracker.

thx

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities
are wrong. -- Voltaire

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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Preferred Issue Tracker

[Rémi Denis-Courmont via ffmpeg-devel]

Le torstaina 23. lokakuuta 2025, 13.49.54 Itä-Euroopan kesäaika Michael 
Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel a écrit :
> I ve missed a crucial detail, which only became obvious to me now.
> Seeing that people vote based on what they personally prefer,
> and 90% of the people seem not to care which bug tracker we use.

Isn't that what the majority of active developers prefer the best for the 
project, or the best possible approximation of it?
And if it's not, how are people supposed to evaluate it?

It seems to me that having main developers vote on what they prefer is 
actually the right way about it, or at least the "least bad".

Speaking as a CC member, I find the use of public balot questionable, but I 
don't see a problem with people voting to their preference. (And I don't plan 
to vote, since my involvement with FFMpeg bug triaging is negligible.)

-- 
ヅニ-クーモン・レミ
Tapiolan uusi kaupunki, Uudenmaan entinen Suomen tasavalta



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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Preferred Issue Tracker

[Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel]

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Hi Remi

On Thu, Oct 23, 2025 at 08:41:32PM +0300, Rémi Denis-Courmont via ffmpeg-devel wrote:
> Le torstaina 23. lokakuuta 2025, 13.49.54 Itä-Euroopan kesäaika Michael 
> Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel a écrit :
> > I ve missed a crucial detail, which only became obvious to me now.
> > Seeing that people vote based on what they personally prefer,
> > and 90% of the people seem not to care which bug tracker we use.
> 
> Isn't that what the majority of active developers prefer the best for the 
> project, or the best possible approximation of it?
> And if it's not, how are people supposed to evaluate it?
> 

> It seems to me that having main developers vote on what they prefer is 
> actually the right way about it, or at least the "least bad".

well, yes

If a large random set of the people vote, then yes, everyone voting what they
personally prefer, should work in the case of the issue tracker here.

thx

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your
right to say it. -- Voltaire

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