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From: Nicolas George <george@nsup.org>
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org>
Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Again pre-multiplied alpha
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2025 16:15:18 +0200
Message-ID: <aIeF9s8hbQceY3Vz@phare.normalesup.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20250728000028.GW29660@pb2>

Michael Niedermayer (HE12025-07-28):
> About STF, it depends on who does the work.
> If a FFmpeg developer does the work, then i think STF is a good idea.
> OTOH It would be an inappropriate task for a new contributor (like in GSoC).

Indeed, way too hard for somebody who does not already know libavfilter
very well. If perchance they do but for some reason never contributed,
we cannot trust that they do.

> One thing thats important for this is that whoever wants to work on this
> speaks with Nicolas to make sure theres agreement on the implementation.

Thanks. I had started to make the negotiation modular and extensible a
few years back, that is when I realized what I now say an repeat:

Any work on the format negotiation of libavfilter must start wit adding
test coverage.

Otherwise, the work is very likely to break specific cases that were
fixed along the years.

We talked about it a few weeks ago, I procrastinated answering:

Adding test coverage is a boring but not difficult task, it can be done
by a stranger motivated by a bounty. But I personally have absolutely no
idea how to make it happen with the STF. In particular, I have
absolutely no idea how much to offer.

> My original plan was based on arbitrary graphs and a solution that could be
> proofen to be within a constant factor of the global optimum. This would
> have required simplifying the graph iteratively with a random seed multiple
> times IIRC. But because a single pass "just worked" i never implemented this.

I do not understand what you are talking about. Right now, the
negotiation process does a loop, and it often requires a few passes to
converge.

There are two things missing:

1. If we want to add a new orthogonal category, copy-paste it is.

2. We have no way to negotiate dependant categories. Is it audio? let
us negotiate the sample format and channel layout; is it video? let us
negotiate the pixel format.

Making the negotiation categories modular, with callbacks instead of
hard-coded function calls, would make both relatively easy, and more
importantly not a maintenance nightmare.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George
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      reply	other threads:[~2025-07-28 14:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 35+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-07-23 13:47 [FFmpeg-devel] (no subject) Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 01/18] avutil/frame: add AVFrame.alpha_mode Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 16:00   ` Kacper Michajlow
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 02/18] fftools/ffprobe: add support for AVFrame.alpha_mode Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 03/18] avfilter/vf_showinfo: print alpha mode when relevant Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 16:11   ` Kacper Michajlow
2025-07-24 11:19     ` Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 04/18] avcodec/avcodec: add AVCodecContext.alpha_mode Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 05/18] avcodec/encode: enforce alpha mode compatibility at encode time Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 06/18] avcodec/png: set correct alpha mode Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 07/18] avcodec/exr: " Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 08/18] avcodec/libjxl: " Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 09/18] avcodec/libjxlenc: also attach extra channel info Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 10/18] avcodec/jpegxl: parse and signal correct alpha mode Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 16:19   ` Kacper Michajlow
2025-07-24 11:13     ` Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 11/18] avfilter/vf_scale: don't ignore incoming chroma location Niklas Haas
2025-07-24 11:16   ` Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 12/18] fftools/ffmpeg_enc: don't ignore user selected " Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 13/18] fftools/ffmpeg_enc: forward frame alpha mode to encoder Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 14/18] avfilter/vf_premultiply: tag correct alpha mode on result Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 15/18] avfilter/vf_alphamerge: tag correct alpha mode Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 16/18] avfilter/vf_overlay: respect alpha mode tagging by default Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 17/18] avfilter/vf_setparams: add alpha_mode parameter Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 18/18] avfilter/vf_libplacebo: add an alpha_mode setting Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 14:11 ` [FFmpeg-devel] Again pre-multiplied alpha Nicolas George
2025-07-23 15:18   ` Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 17:02     ` Nicolas George
2025-07-24 11:11       ` Niklas Haas
2025-07-24 14:59         ` Nicolas George
2025-07-24 20:58           ` Niklas Haas
2025-07-28 14:18             ` Nicolas George
2025-07-29  8:55               ` Niklas Haas
2025-07-28  0:00         ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-07-28 14:15           ` Nicolas George [this message]

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