[FFmpeg-devel] Notifications for the new monolithic tool

[FFmpeg-devel] Notifications for the new monolithic tool

[Nicolas George]

Hi. I just saw somebody mention this on trac:

https://code.ffmpeg.org/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/pulls/20025

But I have no trace of it in my inbox. If this is now an accepted way of
getting contributions, then either the devel mailing-list should receive
notifications or it should be made very clear here, repeatedly, that
people need to subscribe to some other kind of notifications.

Thanks.

-- 
  Nicolas George
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Notifications for the new monolithic tool

[James Almer]

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On 7/23/2025 4:24 PM, Nicolas George wrote:
> Hi. I just saw somebody mention this on trac:
> 
> https://code.ffmpeg.org/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/pulls/20025
> 
> But I have no trace of it in my inbox. If this is now an accepted way of
> getting contributions, then either the devel mailing-list should receive
> notifications or it should be made very clear here, repeatedly, that
> people need to subscribe to some other kind of notifications.
> 
> Thanks.

If you register an account you'll get emails about new PRs if you're a 
maintainer (Poke Timo to set you up). But i agree the mailing list 
should get such emails during this testing period at least.


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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Notifications for the new monolithic tool

[Timo Rothenpieler]

On 7/23/2025 9:24 PM, Nicolas George wrote:
> Hi. I just saw somebody mention this on trac:
> 
> https://code.ffmpeg.org/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/pulls/20025
> 
> But I have no trace of it in my inbox. If this is now an accepted way of
> getting contributions, then either the devel mailing-list should receive
> notifications or it should be made very clear here, repeatedly, that
> people need to subscribe to some other kind of notifications.
I've registered a dummy-user with the ffmpeg-devel address as its E-Mail 
and subscribed it to all the repo notifications.

So things will get forwared to the ML via it now.

Hope that's not too spammy, but it should generally only be issues, 
issue comments and PRs and comments.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Notifications for the new monolithic tool

[Jacob Lifshay]

On July 23, 2025 3:06:40 PM PDT, Timo Rothenpieler <timo@rothenpieler.org> wrote:
> I've registered a dummy-user with the ffmpeg-devel address as its E-Mail and subscribed it to all the repo notifications.
> 
> So things will get forwared to the ML via it now.

It seems to not be working, since you sent this I've gotten notifications from ffmpeg's forgejo that were not mirrored to the mailing list:
https://code.ffmpeg.org/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/pulls/20020#issuecomment-364

Jacob
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Notifications for the new monolithic tool

[Lynne]

On 24/07/2025 07:06, Timo Rothenpieler wrote:
> On 7/23/2025 9:24 PM, Nicolas George wrote:
>> Hi. I just saw somebody mention this on trac:
>>
>> https://code.ffmpeg.org/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/pulls/20025
>>
>> But I have no trace of it in my inbox. If this is now an accepted way of
>> getting contributions, then either the devel mailing-list should receive
>> notifications or it should be made very clear here, repeatedly, that
>> people need to subscribe to some other kind of notifications.
> I've registered a dummy-user with the ffmpeg-devel address as its E-Mail 
> and subscribed it to all the repo notifications.
> 
> So things will get forwared to the ML via it now.
> 
> Hope that's not too spammy, but it should generally only be issues, 
> issue comments and PRs and comments.

That's way too spammy. Those wishing to stay on the ML should respect 
the decision of the vote and make an account.

This will make all discussions here get drowned out.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Notifications for the new monolithic tool

[Timo Rothenpieler]

On 24/07/2025 03:55, Lynne wrote:
> On 24/07/2025 07:06, Timo Rothenpieler wrote:
>> On 7/23/2025 9:24 PM, Nicolas George wrote:
>>> Hi. I just saw somebody mention this on trac:
>>>
>>> https://code.ffmpeg.org/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/pulls/20025
>>>
>>> But I have no trace of it in my inbox. If this is now an accepted way of
>>> getting contributions, then either the devel mailing-list should receive
>>> notifications or it should be made very clear here, repeatedly, that
>>> people need to subscribe to some other kind of notifications.
>> I've registered a dummy-user with the ffmpeg-devel address as its E- 
>> Mail and subscribed it to all the repo notifications.
>>
>> So things will get forwared to the ML via it now.
>>
>> Hope that's not too spammy, but it should generally only be issues, 
>> issue comments and PRs and comments.
> 
> That's way too spammy. Those wishing to stay on the ML should respect 
> the decision of the vote and make an account.
If the "was synchronized" notifications could be disabled, it'd be much 
more reasonable I feel.
But that does not seem to be an option, it's all or nothing.

I do see the issue that splitting the existing developer base off though.
So without this, people might get left behind, so it should be left on 
until at least a significant portion of developers have signed up and 
gotten added to the Team.

I have not received a single request to be added yet.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Notifications for the new monolithic tool

[Nicolas George]

Timo Rothenpieler (HE12025-07-24):
> If the "was synchronized" notifications could be disabled, it'd be much more
> reasonable I feel.
> But that does not seem to be an option, it's all or nothing.

I am not sure what you mean here.

If a patch is submitted to the monolithic thing, the patch must be
mirrored on the mailing-list.

If a comment on a patch is submitted to the monolithic thing, the
comment must be mirrored on the mailing-list.

I personally do not care, but you probably want to have it mirrored the
other way around too.

And this:

# View it on FFmpeg Forgejo ( https://code.ffmpeg.org/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/pulls/20031 ) or reply to this email directly.

is not adequate.

> I do see the issue that splitting the existing developer base off though.

That would be a catastrophe.

> So without this, people might get left behind, so it should be left on until
> at least a significant portion of developers have signed up and gotten added
> to the Team.
> 
> I have not received a single request to be added yet.

You have not documented that it was necessary yet.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Notifications for the new monolithic tool

[Timo Rothenpieler]

On 7/24/2025 5:09 PM, Nicolas George wrote:
> Timo Rothenpieler (HE12025-07-24):
>> If the "was synchronized" notifications could be disabled, it'd be much more
>> reasonable I feel.
>> But that does not seem to be an option, it's all or nothing.
> 
> I am not sure what you mean here.
> 
> If a patch is submitted to the monolithic thing, the patch must be
> mirrored on the mailing-list.

I don't see any need for this, no.
It'll be mentioned here with a link to the PR/issue.

Though for now I have turned it off, to find a solution for the 
"synchronized" spam.

> If a comment on a patch is submitted to the monolithic thing, the
> comment must be mirrored on the mailing-list.

That's what it does, just not as format-patch, but simply as a link.
And the mailing list is "a monolithic thing" as well, so there's no 
point throwing shade like that.

> I personally do not care, but you probably want to have it mirrored the
> other way around too.

Patchwork tries to do that and it only semi-works, so I'd rather not.

> And this:
> 
> # View it on FFmpeg Forgejo ( https://code.ffmpeg.org/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/pulls/20031 ) or reply to this email directly.
> 
> is not adequate.

Yes it is, the mailing list just eats the Reply-To address, breaking it.
It probably wouldn't work anyway cause only the list-address can reply, 
since every reply needs to be tied to an account.

>> I do see the issue that splitting the existing developer base off though.
> 
> That would be a catastrophe.
> 
>> So without this, people might get left behind, so it should be left on until
>> at least a significant portion of developers have signed up and gotten added
>> to the Team.
>>
>> I have not received a single request to be added yet.
> 
> You have not documented that it was necessary yet.

It's been mentioned multiple times on the list and on IRC by now, and it 
should be obvious that you can't just give yourself push/merge access on 
your own anyway.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Notifications for the new monolithic tool

[Nicolas George]

Timo Rothenpieler (HE12025-07-24):
> I don't see any need for this, no.

If the patch does not reach our inbox, it will not be reviewed.

> That's what it does, just not as format-patch, but simply as a link.

A link is not enough. When we open our mail, we need to be able to see
the proposed change without an extra step.

> And the mailing list is "a monolithic thing" as well, so there's no point
> throwing shade like that.

The mailing-list is just a mailing list, it does not try to combine a
dozen different tools into one.

> Patchwork tries to do that and it only semi-works, so I'd rather not.

Then stop trying to force us to use mediocre tools.

> > # View it on FFmpeg Forgejo ( https://code.ffmpeg.org/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/pulls/20031 ) or reply to this email directly.
> > is not adequate.
> Yes it is, the mailing list just eats the Reply-To address, breaking it.

No it is not: it requires an extra step.

> It's been mentioned multiple times on the list and on IRC by now, and it
> should be obvious that you can't just give yourself push/merge access on
> your own anyway.

I do not care about push access for now, I care about notifications.

As libabvfilter maintainer, if somebody proposes a patch on libavfilter,
I need to see it.

You promised it would be possible to continue working through mail
without extra work: did you lie?

-- 
  Nicolas George
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Notifications for the new monolithic tool

[Timo Rothenpieler]

On 7/24/2025 6:48 PM, Nicolas George wrote:
> Timo Rothenpieler (HE12025-07-24):
>> I don't see any need for this, no.
> 
> If the patch does not reach our inbox, it will not be reviewed.
> 
>> That's what it does, just not as format-patch, but simply as a link.
> 
> A link is not enough. When we open our mail, we need to be able to see
> the proposed change without an extra step.

Why?
And who are "we"?
Having a working Web-browser is a reasonable requirement in 2025.

One could even make the counter argument that only being able to see 
patches as mail is not enough, and actively deters contributors and 
potential future maintainers.

>> And the mailing list is "a monolithic thing" as well, so there's no point
>> throwing shade like that.
> 
> The mailing-list is just a mailing list, it does not try to combine a
> dozen different tools into one.
> 
>> Patchwork tries to do that and it only semi-works, so I'd rather not.
> 
> Then stop trying to force us to use mediocre tools.

The way it looks to me, there is only you, not an "us" or "we".
I have not seen anyone except for you oppose the use of more modern tools.
The only discussion ever was about which ones exactly, and hosted where 
by whom.

The general expectation even seems to be that the ML will eventually 
become obsolete, though I don't see that happen anytime soon.

>>> # View it on FFmpeg Forgejo ( https://code.ffmpeg.org/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/pulls/20031 ) or reply to this email directly.
>>> is not adequate.
>> Yes it is, the mailing list just eats the Reply-To address, breaking it.
> 
> No it is not: it requires an extra step.
> 
>> It's been mentioned multiple times on the list and on IRC by now, and it
>> should be obvious that you can't just give yourself push/merge access on
>> your own anyway.
> 
> I do not care about push access for now, I care about notifications.
> 
> As libabvfilter maintainer, if somebody proposes a patch on libavfilter,
> I need to see it.
> 
> You promised it would be possible to continue working through mail
> without extra work: did you lie?

When did I promise that?
That was something that was discussed at some point I think, but I do 
not remember _anyone_ making such a promise.

It does not seem like a realistic goal to me either. Translating mails 
to patches is not something that's easily done, as proven by patchwork.

Once the spamminess problem has been figured out, notifications about 
PRs will be forwarded to the ML again. So that direction will work fine, 
just not as format-patch patches, but references to PRs.

What I do remember is the requirement to be able to largely/completely 
interact with the tool via CLI.
And you can interact with forgejo nearly entirely via cli with one of 
multiple tools made for it (and plain git itself of course).
The most feature complete being https://gitea.com/gitea/tea
There's multiple ones in active development, so you can pick your favourite.

And you can reply to notification mails from it directly via mail, just 
not when the ML is forwarding them it seems.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Notifications for the new monolithic tool

[Nicolas George]

Lynne (HE12025-07-24):
> That's way too spammy. Those wishing to stay on the ML should respect the
> decision of the vote and make an account.

What decision of the vote?

The way I recall it, the vote that just happened was about which one of
these two monstrous monolithic appliances we were to test in depth.

I distinctly remember nothing about forcing everybody to change their
workflow.

And in earlier discussions, I distinctly remember there was a
precondition to using one of these tools: that the people who know to
use a good MUA and want to continue working like that have the tools and
documentation to do so. That is not currently the case.

-- 
  Nicolas George
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