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From: Nicolas George <george@nsup.org>
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org>
Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Again pre-multiplied alpha
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2025 17:07:10 +0200
Message-ID: <aI4pnpLYjYBCwVeb@phare.normalesup.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20250802162210.GB146423@haasn.xyz>

Niklas Haas (HE12025-08-02):
> I don't think you understand the problem here.

… says somebody who has misunderstood what I was suggesting twice in a
row.

> Such a flag would accomplish
> nothing, since there are no filters that would actually set it.

Yes, your job involves setting this flags on filters you know will not
corrupt output when subjected to premultiplied alpha.

> What you are doing amounts to letting perfect be the enemy of good.

No, that would be require real negotiation.

What I am asking is called a compromise: I demand less than I would want
but more than what you are offering.

And I do not think that adding a flag is too much to ask.

>								I don't
> see anything "sloppy" in my commits; they are introducing a well-scoped feature
> with well-defined semantics that correspond to user expectation, and you
> are essentially blocking it because you want it to do more than it does?

It is not true that it corresponds to user expectation. Quite the
opposite, it increases the risk of user corrupting their data.

> Would it be nice if libavfilter could negotiate all AVFrame properties? Yes.
> Is that a reasonable requirement for adding new AVFrame field? No.

For the third time, it is not what I am asking you to. So please refrain
from burning that straw man a fourth time.

> Last time I checked, you do not pay me to implement your desires, so why
> should I invest undue effort implement your feature requests?

Last time I checked, we are all volunteers.

My purpose is to keep the code and behavior as good as possible.

Yours is…? I do not know? Score a few commits? Get a feature in quickly
because you need it in another project?

> But also according to you, it is an "obscure expert-level feature"; so
> which is it? A super useful user-facing feature that needs to be documented
> meticulously, or an obscure option for experts who know what they are doing?

Even an obscure expert-level feature requires documentation.

> Anways, unless you have more concrete feedback, I am going to consider the
> current version of this series (on ForgeJo) as final and merge it in ~72H
> if there is no further (legitimate) objection.
> 
> If you disagree with that, I suggest we involve the TC, as I don't see us
> making more grounds here.

Then I will.

-- 
  Nicolas George
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  reply	other threads:[~2025-08-02 15:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 38+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2025-07-23 13:47 [FFmpeg-devel] (no subject) Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 01/18] avutil/frame: add AVFrame.alpha_mode Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 16:00   ` Kacper Michajlow
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 02/18] fftools/ffprobe: add support for AVFrame.alpha_mode Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 03/18] avfilter/vf_showinfo: print alpha mode when relevant Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 16:11   ` Kacper Michajlow
2025-07-24 11:19     ` Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 04/18] avcodec/avcodec: add AVCodecContext.alpha_mode Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 05/18] avcodec/encode: enforce alpha mode compatibility at encode time Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 06/18] avcodec/png: set correct alpha mode Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 07/18] avcodec/exr: " Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 08/18] avcodec/libjxl: " Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 09/18] avcodec/libjxlenc: also attach extra channel info Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 10/18] avcodec/jpegxl: parse and signal correct alpha mode Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 16:19   ` Kacper Michajlow
2025-07-24 11:13     ` Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 11/18] avfilter/vf_scale: don't ignore incoming chroma location Niklas Haas
2025-07-24 11:16   ` Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 12/18] fftools/ffmpeg_enc: don't ignore user selected " Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 13/18] fftools/ffmpeg_enc: forward frame alpha mode to encoder Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 14/18] avfilter/vf_premultiply: tag correct alpha mode on result Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 15/18] avfilter/vf_alphamerge: tag correct alpha mode Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 16/18] avfilter/vf_overlay: respect alpha mode tagging by default Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 17/18] avfilter/vf_setparams: add alpha_mode parameter Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 13:47 ` [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 18/18] avfilter/vf_libplacebo: add an alpha_mode setting Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 14:11 ` [FFmpeg-devel] Again pre-multiplied alpha Nicolas George
2025-07-23 15:18   ` Niklas Haas
2025-07-23 17:02     ` Nicolas George
2025-07-24 11:11       ` Niklas Haas
2025-07-24 14:59         ` Nicolas George
2025-07-24 20:58           ` Niklas Haas
2025-07-28 14:18             ` Nicolas George
2025-07-29  8:55               ` Niklas Haas
2025-08-02  9:40                 ` Nicolas George
2025-08-02 14:22                   ` Niklas Haas
2025-08-02 15:07                     ` Nicolas George [this message]
2025-07-28  0:00         ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-07-28 14:15           ` Nicolas George

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