[FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
I've been working on a desktop machine, which is currently a Zen 3.
AVX512 has become more popular in the meantime, with Zen 4
and future AMD CPUs shipping with it, but currently, we have very
little AVX512.
In short, I'd like a machine which runs an AVX512-capable
AMD CPU, and as the world is opening up more and more, I'd
like for it to be portable.

I've looked around a lot, but as Intel still has a firm monopoly,
the options are limited (7940H(S), 7945HX, 7845HX, 8945HS).
What I think I've settled for is an ASUS Vivobook Pro 15, with a
7940HS CPU (the second least powerful Zen 4 mobile CPU),
currently trading for 1999.0 EUR on amazon.de.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vivobook-Display-R9-7940HS-Windows-Keyboard/dp/B0BRYTS8MR

The other alternative I've found is a Lenovo Legion 7 Pro, but
it's more expensive at 2399 EUR (currently seems temporarily
discounted due to the holidays).
The Lenovo IdeaPad still hasn't been refreshed and uses a Zen 3 CPU,
so it doesn't fit the requirements. I'd take other options, but after
all the looking I did, the only other laptops to feature Zen 4 CPUs are
rather pricy gaming laptops with high-end NVIDIA GPUs, starting at 2500 EUR
and going up.
I'd be happier with the Vivobook. The OLED screen is a nice bonus too.

I'd be open to ARM-based Apple laptops too, but we already have a
shared M1 machine, and I'm not really a big Fedora fan. RISC-V is obviously
still out of the question at this point.

As for my plans for AVX512, I'll first add limited 32-register version of the FFT,
which wouldn't be too hard to do, and looking into modifying the existing
recombination function to work on 16-point basis. I'll also look into
modifying other trivially extendable code like the float_dsp.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[James Almer]

On 1/2/2024 9:56 PM, Lynne wrote:
> As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
> I've been working on a desktop machine, which is currently a Zen 3.
> AVX512 has become more popular in the meantime, with Zen 4
> and future AMD CPUs shipping with it, but currently, we have very
> little AVX512.
> In short, I'd like a machine which runs an AVX512-capable
> AMD CPU, and as the world is opening up more and more, I'd
> like for it to be portable.
> 
> I've looked around a lot, but as Intel still has a firm monopoly,
> the options are limited (7940H(S), 7945HX, 7845HX, 8945HS).
> What I think I've settled for is an ASUS Vivobook Pro 15, with a
> 7940HS CPU (the second least powerful Zen 4 mobile CPU),

7940HS is the highest Ryzen 9 model from the 7040 series. Not sure where 
you got second least powerful from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors#Phoenix_(7040_series,_Zen_4/RDNA3_based)

> currently trading for 1999.0 EUR on amazon.de.
> 
> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vivobook-Display-R9-7940HS-Windows-Keyboard/dp/B0BRYTS8MR
> 
> The other alternative I've found is a Lenovo Legion 7 Pro, but
> it's more expensive at 2399 EUR (currently seems temporarily
> discounted due to the holidays).

I see a Lenovo Yoga Pro 7 available for 1099 EUR. 
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Lenovo-Display-Graphics-Blue-Green-Premium/dp/B0CGLPVQHK/

Same amount of RAM, screen resolution and storage, and a Ryzen 7.

> The Lenovo IdeaPad still hasn't been refreshed and uses a Zen 3 CPU,
> so it doesn't fit the requirements. I'd take other options, but after
> all the looking I did, the only other laptops to feature Zen 4 CPUs are
> rather pricy gaming laptops with high-end NVIDIA GPUs, starting at 2500 EUR
> and going up.

The Vivobook has a discrete Nvidia GTX 4060, which makes it a gaming 
focused laptop too.

> I'd be happier with the Vivobook. The OLED screen is a nice bonus too.
> 
> I'd be open to ARM-based Apple laptops too, but we already have a
> shared M1 machine, and I'm not really a big Fedora fan. RISC-V is obviously
> still out of the question at this point.
> 
> As for my plans for AVX512, I'll first add limited 32-register version of the FFT,
> which wouldn't be too hard to do, and looking into modifying the existing
> recombination function to work on 16-point basis. I'll also look into
> modifying other trivially extendable code like the float_dsp.
> _______________________________________________
> ffmpeg-devel mailing list
> ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
> 
> To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email
> ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 3, 2024, 02:22 by jamrial@gmail.com:

> On 1/2/2024 9:56 PM, Lynne wrote:
>
>> As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
>> I've been working on a desktop machine, which is currently a Zen 3.
>> AVX512 has become more popular in the meantime, with Zen 4
>> and future AMD CPUs shipping with it, but currently, we have very
>> little AVX512.
>> In short, I'd like a machine which runs an AVX512-capable
>> AMD CPU, and as the world is opening up more and more, I'd
>> like for it to be portable.
>>
>> I've looked around a lot, but as Intel still has a firm monopoly,
>> the options are limited (7940H(S), 7945HX, 7845HX, 8945HS).
>> What I think I've settled for is an ASUS Vivobook Pro 15, with a
>> 7940HS CPU (the second least powerful Zen 4 mobile CPU),
>>
>
> 7940HS is the highest Ryzen 9 model from the 7040 series. Not sure where you got second least powerful from.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors#Phoenix_(7040_series,_Zen_4/RDNA3_based)
>

Was reading Wikipedia, and thought it was a Zen 3, my mistake
(and AMD's mistake for making 4 versioning formats):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors


>> currently trading for 1999.0 EUR on amazon.de.
>>
>> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vivobook-Display-R9-7940HS-Windows-Keyboard/dp/B0BRYTS8MR
>>
>> The other alternative I've found is a Lenovo Legion 7 Pro, but
>> it's more expensive at 2399 EUR (currently seems temporarily
>> discounted due to the holidays).
>>
>
> I see a Lenovo Yoga Pro 7 available for 1099 EUR. https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Lenovo-Display-Graphics-Blue-Green-Premium/dp/B0CGLPVQHK/
>
> Same amount of RAM, screen resolution and storage, and a Ryzen 7.
>

It's a good suggestion, but I have a better one, that's somewhat more expensive,
but has a better screen, better build quality, and is cheaper than the Vivobook:

A Lenovo ThinkPad P14s Gen 4 with the following options:
 - Windows 14 Home (if you don't pick Windows, the OLED display is not available for no reason)
 - 32Gb of RAM
 - 1Tb "performance" SSD (it's 70 EUR more, but twice the size)
 - 2880x1800 OLED monitor
 - 4-cell battery (only 10 EUR more)
 - English (EU) keyboard, without backlighting

https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K9CTO1WWDE2

For 1.700,11 EUR. It's made of metal, unlike the Yoga, it's possible to repair,
targeted at business users, has way more ports (including a full-sized RJ-45!),
bigger battery, 3-year warranty instead of a 3-month limited warranty,
and a better keyboard.

We have the budget, as we were looking for ways to spend it anyway,
and it's definitely going to last, so I don't think it's out of an acceptable price range.


>> The Lenovo IdeaPad still hasn't been refreshed and uses a Zen 3 CPU,
>> so it doesn't fit the requirements. I'd take other options, but after
>> all the looking I did, the only other laptops to feature Zen 4 CPUs are
>> rather pricy gaming laptops with high-end NVIDIA GPUs, starting at 2500 EUR
>> and going up.
>>
>
> The Vivobook has a discrete Nvidia GTX 4060, which makes it a gaming focused laptop too.
>

Actually, the Yoga Pro 7 also comes with an NVIDIA GPU, a 4050:
https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/p/laptops/yoga/yoga-pro-series/Yoga-Pro-7-Gen-8-(14-inch-AMD)/LEN101Y0032
(also mentioned it has an NVIDIA GPU on the amazon link, but they seem to be
ashamed of the fact it's a 4050 so they don't mention a model).
The ThinkPad P14s does not have an NVIDIA GPU, which is much less of a plus than
before, but it does save from having a near-constant constant power hog and Optimus display setup.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Michael Niedermayer]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3988 bytes --]

On Wed, Jan 03, 2024 at 04:04:00AM +0100, Lynne wrote:
> Jan 3, 2024, 02:22 by jamrial@gmail.com:
> 
> > On 1/2/2024 9:56 PM, Lynne wrote:
> >
> >> As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
> >> I've been working on a desktop machine, which is currently a Zen 3.
> >> AVX512 has become more popular in the meantime, with Zen 4
> >> and future AMD CPUs shipping with it, but currently, we have very
> >> little AVX512.
> >> In short, I'd like a machine which runs an AVX512-capable
> >> AMD CPU, and as the world is opening up more and more, I'd
> >> like for it to be portable.
> >>
> >> I've looked around a lot, but as Intel still has a firm monopoly,
> >> the options are limited (7940H(S), 7945HX, 7845HX, 8945HS).
> >> What I think I've settled for is an ASUS Vivobook Pro 15, with a
> >> 7940HS CPU (the second least powerful Zen 4 mobile CPU),
> >>
> >
> > 7940HS is the highest Ryzen 9 model from the 7040 series. Not sure where you got second least powerful from.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors#Phoenix_(7040_series,_Zen_4/RDNA3_based)
> >
> 
> Was reading Wikipedia, and thought it was a Zen 3, my mistake
> (and AMD's mistake for making 4 versioning formats):
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors
> 
> 
> >> currently trading for 1999.0 EUR on amazon.de.
> >>
> >> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vivobook-Display-R9-7940HS-Windows-Keyboard/dp/B0BRYTS8MR
> >>
> >> The other alternative I've found is a Lenovo Legion 7 Pro, but
> >> it's more expensive at 2399 EUR (currently seems temporarily
> >> discounted due to the holidays).
> >>
> >
> > I see a Lenovo Yoga Pro 7 available for 1099 EUR. https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Lenovo-Display-Graphics-Blue-Green-Premium/dp/B0CGLPVQHK/
> >
> > Same amount of RAM, screen resolution and storage, and a Ryzen 7.
> >
> 
> It's a good suggestion, but I have a better one, that's somewhat more expensive,
> but has a better screen, better build quality, and is cheaper than the Vivobook:
> 
> A Lenovo ThinkPad P14s Gen 4 with the following options:
>  - Windows 14 Home (if you don't pick Windows, the OLED display is not available for no reason)
>  - 32Gb of RAM
>  - 1Tb "performance" SSD (it's 70 EUR more, but twice the size)
>  - 2880x1800 OLED monitor
>  - 4-cell battery (only 10 EUR more)
>  - English (EU) keyboard, without backlighting
> 
> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K9CTO1WWDE2
> 
> For 1.700,11 EUR. It's made of metal, unlike the Yoga, it's possible to repair,
> targeted at business users, has way more ports (including a full-sized RJ-45!),
> bigger battery, 3-year warranty instead of a 3-month limited warranty,
> and a better keyboard.

"3-month limited warranty" ?
if you are in the EU you should have 2 years minimum no matter what the seller says AFAIK


> 
> We have the budget, as we were looking for ways to spend it anyway,

yes, if noone wants to cleanup swscale and noone suggests anything else then using
a tiny fraction of the SPI money for hardware for FFmpeg development makes sense
to me too. Of course we shouldnt spend it for the sake of spending but if it  goes
towards something that helps FFmpeg development then spending 1-2k for a machiene looks
fine to me personally.

Personally i think a OLED or good IPS screen is required for FFmpeg work, SSD obviously
and as you work on ASM obviously you need a CPU with the latest features.

Personally, when choosing a notebook i would try to choose one i can try before
buying or have a easy way to return easily. I once bought one that looked good on paper
and in reviews but then had a really bad screen (and i had to return it).
But my current note books are all more on the budget side

thx

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know. -- Lao Tsu

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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 251 bytes --]

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[James Almer]

On 1/3/2024 12:04 AM, Lynne wrote:
> Jan 3, 2024, 02:22 by jamrial@gmail.com:
> 
>> On 1/2/2024 9:56 PM, Lynne wrote:
>>
>>> As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
>>> I've been working on a desktop machine, which is currently a Zen 3.
>>> AVX512 has become more popular in the meantime, with Zen 4
>>> and future AMD CPUs shipping with it, but currently, we have very
>>> little AVX512.
>>> In short, I'd like a machine which runs an AVX512-capable
>>> AMD CPU, and as the world is opening up more and more, I'd
>>> like for it to be portable.
>>>
>>> I've looked around a lot, but as Intel still has a firm monopoly,
>>> the options are limited (7940H(S), 7945HX, 7845HX, 8945HS).
>>> What I think I've settled for is an ASUS Vivobook Pro 15, with a
>>> 7940HS CPU (the second least powerful Zen 4 mobile CPU),
>>>
>>
>> 7940HS is the highest Ryzen 9 model from the 7040 series. Not sure where you got second least powerful from.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors#Phoenix_(7040_series,_Zen_4/RDNA3_based)
>>
> 
> Was reading Wikipedia, and thought it was a Zen 3, my mistake
> (and AMD's mistake for making 4 versioning formats):
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors
> 
> 
>>> currently trading for 1999.0 EUR on amazon.de.
>>>
>>> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vivobook-Display-R9-7940HS-Windows-Keyboard/dp/B0BRYTS8MR
>>>
>>> The other alternative I've found is a Lenovo Legion 7 Pro, but
>>> it's more expensive at 2399 EUR (currently seems temporarily
>>> discounted due to the holidays).
>>>
>>
>> I see a Lenovo Yoga Pro 7 available for 1099 EUR. https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Lenovo-Display-Graphics-Blue-Green-Premium/dp/B0CGLPVQHK/
>>
>> Same amount of RAM, screen resolution and storage, and a Ryzen 7.
>>
> 
> It's a good suggestion, but I have a better one, that's somewhat more expensive,
> but has a better screen, better build quality, and is cheaper than the Vivobook:
> 
> A Lenovo ThinkPad P14s Gen 4 with the following options:
>   - Windows 14 Home (if you don't pick Windows, the OLED display is not available for no reason)
>   - 32Gb of RAM
>   - 1Tb "performance" SSD (it's 70 EUR more, but twice the size)
>   - 2880x1800 OLED monitor
>   - 4-cell battery (only 10 EUR more)
>   - English (EU) keyboard, without backlighting
> 
> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K9CTO1WWDE2
> 
> For 1.700,11 EUR. It's made of metal, unlike the Yoga, it's possible to repair,
> targeted at business users, has way more ports (including a full-sized RJ-45!),
> bigger battery, 3-year warranty instead of a 3-month limited warranty,
> and a better keyboard.
> 
> We have the budget, as we were looking for ways to spend it anyway,
> and it's definitely going to last, so I don't think it's out of an acceptable price range.
> 
> 
>>> The Lenovo IdeaPad still hasn't been refreshed and uses a Zen 3 CPU,
>>> so it doesn't fit the requirements. I'd take other options, but after
>>> all the looking I did, the only other laptops to feature Zen 4 CPUs are
>>> rather pricy gaming laptops with high-end NVIDIA GPUs, starting at 2500 EUR
>>> and going up.
>>>
>>
>> The Vivobook has a discrete Nvidia GTX 4060, which makes it a gaming focused laptop too.
>>
> 
> Actually, the Yoga Pro 7 also comes with an NVIDIA GPU, a 4050:
> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/p/laptops/yoga/yoga-pro-series/Yoga-Pro-7-Gen-8-(14-inch-AMD)/LEN101Y0032
> (also mentioned it has an NVIDIA GPU on the amazon link, but they seem to be
> ashamed of the fact it's a 4050 so they don't mention a model).

As i understand it, it *can* have a 4050. Like many laptops, it has 
different variants with different combinations of CPU and options like 
discrete GPU. The Amazon link i shared is for one with only the IGP.


> The ThinkPad P14s does not have an NVIDIA GPU, which is much less of a plus than
> before, but it does save from having a near-constant constant power hog and Optimus display setup.
> _______________________________________________
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> ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
> 
> To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email
> ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 3, 2024, 04:04 by dev@lynne.ee:

> Jan 3, 2024, 02:22 by jamrial@gmail.com:
>
>> On 1/2/2024 9:56 PM, Lynne wrote:
>>
>>> As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
>>> I've been working on a desktop machine, which is currently a Zen 3.
>>> AVX512 has become more popular in the meantime, with Zen 4
>>> and future AMD CPUs shipping with it, but currently, we have very
>>> little AVX512.
>>> In short, I'd like a machine which runs an AVX512-capable
>>> AMD CPU, and as the world is opening up more and more, I'd
>>> like for it to be portable.
>>>
>>> I've looked around a lot, but as Intel still has a firm monopoly,
>>> the options are limited (7940H(S), 7945HX, 7845HX, 8945HS).
>>> What I think I've settled for is an ASUS Vivobook Pro 15, with a
>>> 7940HS CPU (the second least powerful Zen 4 mobile CPU),
>>>
>>
>> 7940HS is the highest Ryzen 9 model from the 7040 series. Not sure where you got second least powerful from.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors#Phoenix_(7040_series,_Zen_4/RDNA3_based)
>>
>
> Was reading Wikipedia, and thought it was a Zen 3, my mistake
> (and AMD's mistake for making 4 versioning formats):
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors
>
>
>>> currently trading for 1999.0 EUR on amazon.de.
>>>
>>> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vivobook-Display-R9-7940HS-Windows-Keyboard/dp/B0BRYTS8MR
>>>
>>> The other alternative I've found is a Lenovo Legion 7 Pro, but
>>> it's more expensive at 2399 EUR (currently seems temporarily
>>> discounted due to the holidays).
>>>
>>
>> I see a Lenovo Yoga Pro 7 available for 1099 EUR. https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Lenovo-Display-Graphics-Blue-Green-Premium/dp/B0CGLPVQHK/
>>
>> Same amount of RAM, screen resolution and storage, and a Ryzen 7.
>>
>
> It's a good suggestion, but I have a better one, that's somewhat more expensive,
> but has a better screen, better build quality, and is cheaper than the Vivobook:
>
> A Lenovo ThinkPad P14s Gen 4 with the following options:
>  - Windows 14 Home (if you don't pick Windows, the OLED display is not available for no reason)
>  - 32Gb of RAM
>  - 1Tb "performance" SSD (it's 70 EUR more, but twice the size)
>  - 2880x1800 OLED monitor
>  - 4-cell battery (only 10 EUR more)
>  - English (EU) keyboard, without backlighting
>
> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K9CTO1WWDE2
>

Correction: link I pasted was for the P16s, not the P14s, this is the correct link:
https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K5CTO1WWDE2
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Kieran Kunhya]

Sent from my mobile device

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024, 03:30 Lynne, <dev@lynne.ee> wrote:

> Jan 3, 2024, 04:04 by dev@lynne.ee:
>
> > Jan 3, 2024, 02:22 by jamrial@gmail.com:
> >
> >> On 1/2/2024 9:56 PM, Lynne wrote:
> >>
> >>> As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
> >>> I've been working on a desktop machine, which is currently a Zen 3.
> >>> AVX512 has become more popular in the meantime, with Zen 4
> >>> and future AMD CPUs shipping with it, but currently, we have very
> >>> little AVX512.
> >>> In short, I'd like a machine which runs an AVX512-capable
> >>> AMD CPU, and as the world is opening up more and more, I'd
> >>> like for it to be portable.
> >>>
> >>> I've looked around a lot, but as Intel still has a firm monopoly,
> >>> the options are limited (7940H(S), 7945HX, 7845HX, 8945HS).
> >>> What I think I've settled for is an ASUS Vivobook Pro 15, with a
> >>> 7940HS CPU (the second least powerful Zen 4 mobile CPU),
> >>>
> >>
> >> 7940HS is the highest Ryzen 9 model from the 7040 series. Not sure
> where you got second least powerful from.
> >>
> >>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors#Phoenix_(7040_series,_Zen_4/RDNA3_based)
> >>
> >
> > Was reading Wikipedia, and thought it was a Zen 3, my mistake
> > (and AMD's mistake for making 4 versioning formats):
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors
> >
> >
> >>> currently trading for 1999.0 EUR on amazon.de.
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vivobook-Display-R9-7940HS-Windows-Keyboard/dp/B0BRYTS8MR
> >>>
> >>> The other alternative I've found is a Lenovo Legion 7 Pro, but
> >>> it's more expensive at 2399 EUR (currently seems temporarily
> >>> discounted due to the holidays).
> >>>
> >>
> >> I see a Lenovo Yoga Pro 7 available for 1099 EUR.
> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Lenovo-Display-Graphics-Blue-Green-Premium/dp/B0CGLPVQHK/
> >>
> >> Same amount of RAM, screen resolution and storage, and a Ryzen 7.
> >>
> >
> > It's a good suggestion, but I have a better one, that's somewhat more
> expensive,
> > but has a better screen, better build quality, and is cheaper than the
> Vivobook:
> >
> > A Lenovo ThinkPad P14s Gen 4 with the following options:
> >  - Windows 14 Home (if you don't pick Windows, the OLED display is not
> available for no reason)
> >  - 32Gb of RAM
> >  - 1Tb "performance" SSD (it's 70 EUR more, but twice the size)
> >  - 2880x1800 OLED monitor
> >  - 4-cell battery (only 10 EUR more)
> >  - English (EU) keyboard, without backlighting
> >
> >
> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K9CTO1WWDE2
> >
>
> Correction: link I pasted was for the P16s, not the P14s, this is the
> correct link:
>
> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K5CTO1WWDE2


Why not just buy an Intel NUC 11th gen with AVX512?

There are also Zen 4 NUC clones.

Kieran
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 3, 2024, 04:30 by dev@lynne.ee:

> Jan 3, 2024, 04:04 by dev@lynne.ee:
>
>> Jan 3, 2024, 02:22 by jamrial@gmail.com:
>>
>>> On 1/2/2024 9:56 PM, Lynne wrote:
>>>
>>>> As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
>>>> I've been working on a desktop machine, which is currently a Zen 3.
>>>> AVX512 has become more popular in the meantime, with Zen 4
>>>> and future AMD CPUs shipping with it, but currently, we have very
>>>> little AVX512.
>>>> In short, I'd like a machine which runs an AVX512-capable
>>>> AMD CPU, and as the world is opening up more and more, I'd
>>>> like for it to be portable.
>>>>
>>>> I've looked around a lot, but as Intel still has a firm monopoly,
>>>> the options are limited (7940H(S), 7945HX, 7845HX, 8945HS).
>>>> What I think I've settled for is an ASUS Vivobook Pro 15, with a
>>>> 7940HS CPU (the second least powerful Zen 4 mobile CPU),
>>>>
>>>
>>> 7940HS is the highest Ryzen 9 model from the 7040 series. Not sure where you got second least powerful from.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors#Phoenix_(7040_series,_Zen_4/RDNA3_based)
>>>
>>
>> Was reading Wikipedia, and thought it was a Zen 3, my mistake
>> (and AMD's mistake for making 4 versioning formats):
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors
>>
>>
>>>> currently trading for 1999.0 EUR on amazon.de.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vivobook-Display-R9-7940HS-Windows-Keyboard/dp/B0BRYTS8MR
>>>>
>>>> The other alternative I've found is a Lenovo Legion 7 Pro, but
>>>> it's more expensive at 2399 EUR (currently seems temporarily
>>>> discounted due to the holidays).
>>>>
>>>
>>> I see a Lenovo Yoga Pro 7 available for 1099 EUR. https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Lenovo-Display-Graphics-Blue-Green-Premium/dp/B0CGLPVQHK/
>>>
>>> Same amount of RAM, screen resolution and storage, and a Ryzen 7.
>>>
>>
>> It's a good suggestion, but I have a better one, that's somewhat more expensive,
>> but has a better screen, better build quality, and is cheaper than the Vivobook:
>>
>> A Lenovo ThinkPad P14s Gen 4 with the following options:
>>  - Windows 14 Home (if you don't pick Windows, the OLED display is not available for no reason)
>>  - 32Gb of RAM
>>  - 1Tb "performance" SSD (it's 70 EUR more, but twice the size)
>>  - 2880x1800 OLED monitor
>>  - 4-cell battery (only 10 EUR more)
>>  - English (EU) keyboard, without backlighting
>>
>> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K9CTO1WWDE2
>>
>
> Correction: link I pasted was for the P16s, not the P14s, this is the correct link:
> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K5CTO1WWDE2
>

Ping. So far I have one approval from Michael.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 9, 2024, 19:57 by dev@lynne.ee:

> Jan 3, 2024, 04:30 by dev@lynne.ee:
>
>> Jan 3, 2024, 04:04 by dev@lynne.ee:
>>
>>> Jan 3, 2024, 02:22 by jamrial@gmail.com:
>>>
>>>> On 1/2/2024 9:56 PM, Lynne wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
>>>>> I've been working on a desktop machine, which is currently a Zen 3.
>>>>> AVX512 has become more popular in the meantime, with Zen 4
>>>>> and future AMD CPUs shipping with it, but currently, we have very
>>>>> little AVX512.
>>>>> In short, I'd like a machine which runs an AVX512-capable
>>>>> AMD CPU, and as the world is opening up more and more, I'd
>>>>> like for it to be portable.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've looked around a lot, but as Intel still has a firm monopoly,
>>>>> the options are limited (7940H(S), 7945HX, 7845HX, 8945HS).
>>>>> What I think I've settled for is an ASUS Vivobook Pro 15, with a
>>>>> 7940HS CPU (the second least powerful Zen 4 mobile CPU),
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 7940HS is the highest Ryzen 9 model from the 7040 series. Not sure where you got second least powerful from.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors#Phoenix_(7040_series,_Zen_4/RDNA3_based)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Was reading Wikipedia, and thought it was a Zen 3, my mistake
>>> (and AMD's mistake for making 4 versioning formats):
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors
>>>
>>>
>>>>> currently trading for 1999.0 EUR on amazon.de.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vivobook-Display-R9-7940HS-Windows-Keyboard/dp/B0BRYTS8MR
>>>>>
>>>>> The other alternative I've found is a Lenovo Legion 7 Pro, but
>>>>> it's more expensive at 2399 EUR (currently seems temporarily
>>>>> discounted due to the holidays).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I see a Lenovo Yoga Pro 7 available for 1099 EUR. https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Lenovo-Display-Graphics-Blue-Green-Premium/dp/B0CGLPVQHK/
>>>>
>>>> Same amount of RAM, screen resolution and storage, and a Ryzen 7.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's a good suggestion, but I have a better one, that's somewhat more expensive,
>>> but has a better screen, better build quality, and is cheaper than the Vivobook:
>>>
>>> A Lenovo ThinkPad P14s Gen 4 with the following options:
>>>  - Windows 14 Home (if you don't pick Windows, the OLED display is not available for no reason)
>>>  - 32Gb of RAM
>>>  - 1Tb "performance" SSD (it's 70 EUR more, but twice the size)
>>>  - 2880x1800 OLED monitor
>>>  - 4-cell battery (only 10 EUR more)
>>>  - English (EU) keyboard, without backlighting
>>>
>>> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K9CTO1WWDE2
>>>
>>
>> Correction: link I pasted was for the P16s, not the P14s, this is the correct link:
>> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K5CTO1WWDE2
>>
>
> Ping. So far I have one approval from Michael.
>

Ping.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Kieran Kunhya]

On Sun, 14 Jan 2024, 17:24 Lynne, <dev@lynne.ee> wrote:

> Jan 9, 2024, 19:57 by dev@lynne.ee:
>
> > Jan 3, 2024, 04:30 by dev@lynne.ee:
> >
> >> Jan 3, 2024, 04:04 by dev@lynne.ee:
> >>
> >>> Jan 3, 2024, 02:22 by jamrial@gmail.com:
> >>>
> >>>> On 1/2/2024 9:56 PM, Lynne wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
> >>>>> I've been working on a desktop machine, which is currently a Zen 3.
> >>>>> AVX512 has become more popular in the meantime, with Zen 4
> >>>>> and future AMD CPUs shipping with it, but currently, we have very
> >>>>> little AVX512.
> >>>>> In short, I'd like a machine which runs an AVX512-capable
> >>>>> AMD CPU, and as the world is opening up more and more, I'd
> >>>>> like for it to be portable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've looked around a lot, but as Intel still has a firm monopoly,
> >>>>> the options are limited (7940H(S), 7945HX, 7845HX, 8945HS).
> >>>>> What I think I've settled for is an ASUS Vivobook Pro 15, with a
> >>>>> 7940HS CPU (the second least powerful Zen 4 mobile CPU),
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 7940HS is the highest Ryzen 9 model from the 7040 series. Not sure
> where you got second least powerful from.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors#Phoenix_(7040_series,_Zen_4/RDNA3_based)
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Was reading Wikipedia, and thought it was a Zen 3, my mistake
> >>> (and AMD's mistake for making 4 versioning formats):
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> currently trading for 1999.0 EUR on amazon.de.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vivobook-Display-R9-7940HS-Windows-Keyboard/dp/B0BRYTS8MR
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The other alternative I've found is a Lenovo Legion 7 Pro, but
> >>>>> it's more expensive at 2399 EUR (currently seems temporarily
> >>>>> discounted due to the holidays).
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I see a Lenovo Yoga Pro 7 available for 1099 EUR.
> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Lenovo-Display-Graphics-Blue-Green-Premium/dp/B0CGLPVQHK/
> >>>>
> >>>> Same amount of RAM, screen resolution and storage, and a Ryzen 7.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> It's a good suggestion, but I have a better one, that's somewhat more
> expensive,
> >>> but has a better screen, better build quality, and is cheaper than the
> Vivobook:
> >>>
> >>> A Lenovo ThinkPad P14s Gen 4 with the following options:
> >>>  - Windows 14 Home (if you don't pick Windows, the OLED display is not
> available for no reason)
> >>>  - 32Gb of RAM
> >>>  - 1Tb "performance" SSD (it's 70 EUR more, but twice the size)
> >>>  - 2880x1800 OLED monitor
> >>>  - 4-cell battery (only 10 EUR more)
> >>>  - English (EU) keyboard, without backlighting
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K9CTO1WWDE2
> >>>
> >>
> >> Correction: link I pasted was for the P16s, not the P14s, this is the
> correct link:
> >>
> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K5CTO1WWDE2
> >>
> >
> > Ping. So far I have one approval from Michael.
> >
>
> Ping.
>

I agree with Remi's objections to this.

Kieran

>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Paul B Mahol]

On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 9:58 AM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Jan 2024, 17:24 Lynne, <dev@lynne.ee> wrote:
>
> > Jan 9, 2024, 19:57 by dev@lynne.ee:
> >
> > > Jan 3, 2024, 04:30 by dev@lynne.ee:
> > >
> > >> Jan 3, 2024, 04:04 by dev@lynne.ee:
> > >>
> > >>> Jan 3, 2024, 02:22 by jamrial@gmail.com:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 1/2/2024 9:56 PM, Lynne wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
> > >>>>> I've been working on a desktop machine, which is currently a Zen 3.
> > >>>>> AVX512 has become more popular in the meantime, with Zen 4
> > >>>>> and future AMD CPUs shipping with it, but currently, we have very
> > >>>>> little AVX512.
> > >>>>> In short, I'd like a machine which runs an AVX512-capable
> > >>>>> AMD CPU, and as the world is opening up more and more, I'd
> > >>>>> like for it to be portable.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I've looked around a lot, but as Intel still has a firm monopoly,
> > >>>>> the options are limited (7940H(S), 7945HX, 7845HX, 8945HS).
> > >>>>> What I think I've settled for is an ASUS Vivobook Pro 15, with a
> > >>>>> 7940HS CPU (the second least powerful Zen 4 mobile CPU),
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> 7940HS is the highest Ryzen 9 model from the 7040 series. Not sure
> > where you got second least powerful from.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors#Phoenix_(7040_series,_Zen_4/RDNA3_based)
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Was reading Wikipedia, and thought it was a Zen 3, my mistake
> > >>> (and AMD's mistake for making 4 versioning formats):
> > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>> currently trading for 1999.0 EUR on amazon.de.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> >
> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vivobook-Display-R9-7940HS-Windows-Keyboard/dp/B0BRYTS8MR
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The other alternative I've found is a Lenovo Legion 7 Pro, but
> > >>>>> it's more expensive at 2399 EUR (currently seems temporarily
> > >>>>> discounted due to the holidays).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I see a Lenovo Yoga Pro 7 available for 1099 EUR.
> >
> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Lenovo-Display-Graphics-Blue-Green-Premium/dp/B0CGLPVQHK/
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Same amount of RAM, screen resolution and storage, and a Ryzen 7.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> It's a good suggestion, but I have a better one, that's somewhat more
> > expensive,
> > >>> but has a better screen, better build quality, and is cheaper than
> the
> > Vivobook:
> > >>>
> > >>> A Lenovo ThinkPad P14s Gen 4 with the following options:
> > >>>  - Windows 14 Home (if you don't pick Windows, the OLED display is
> not
> > available for no reason)
> > >>>  - 32Gb of RAM
> > >>>  - 1Tb "performance" SSD (it's 70 EUR more, but twice the size)
> > >>>  - 2880x1800 OLED monitor
> > >>>  - 4-cell battery (only 10 EUR more)
> > >>>  - English (EU) keyboard, without backlighting
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >
> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K9CTO1WWDE2
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Correction: link I pasted was for the P16s, not the P14s, this is the
> > correct link:
> > >>
> >
> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K5CTO1WWDE2
> > >>
> > >
> > > Ping. So far I have one approval from Michael.
> > >
> >
> > Ping.
> >
>
> I agree with Remi's objections to this.
>
> Kieran
>

Poor and irrelevant devs object and want to keep money for themself.


>
> >
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> ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
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>
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> ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

Le maanantaina 15. tammikuuta 2024, 16.06.32 EET Paul B Mahol a écrit :
> > I agree with Remi's objections to this.
> > 
> > Kieran
> 
> Poor and irrelevant devs object and want to keep money for themself.

Neither of us are poor, which makes this defamatory.

While we may subjectively be irrelavant, that is completely inappropriate 
wording. For you reference, Nicolas was able to articulate that 
characterisation in a much more business-compatible fashion.

So this is being reported to the CC.

-- 
雷米‧德尼-库尔蒙
http://www.remlab.net/



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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Paul B Mahol]

On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 5:01 PM Rémi Denis-Courmont <remi@remlab.net> wrote:

> Le maanantaina 15. tammikuuta 2024, 16.06.32 EET Paul B Mahol a écrit :
> > > I agree with Remi's objections to this.
> > >
> > > Kieran
> >
> > Poor and irrelevant devs object and want to keep money for themself.
>
> Neither of us are poor, which makes this defamatory.
>
> While we may subjectively be irrelavant, that is completely inappropriate
> wording. For you reference, Nicolas was able to articulate that
> characterisation in a much more business-compatible fashion.
>

Business? Why is then this discussion public?


>
> So this is being reported to the CC.
>


You cant report anything, it just show how poor you are.


>
> --
> 雷米‧德尼-库尔蒙
> http://www.remlab.net/
>
>
>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Nicolas George]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 324 bytes --]

Paul B Mahol (12024-01-15):
> Business? Why is then this discussion public?

Face it, the FFmpeg Libre Software project that we loved contributing to
because it offered a space of freedom for like-minded hackers no longer
exists, this is now a shallow annex of the FFlabs company.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Michael Niedermayer]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2408 bytes --]

On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 05:10:03PM +0100, Nicolas George wrote:
> Paul B Mahol (12024-01-15):
> > Business? Why is then this discussion public?
> 
> Face it, the FFmpeg Libre Software project that we loved contributing to
> because it offered a space of freedom for like-minded hackers no longer
> exists, this is now a shallow annex of the FFlabs company.

No, FFmpeg is controlled by the general assembly, that you are a member of
From the GA 6 people i would say are associated with FFlabs one of these 6
hates FFlabs as it is currently. 2 more i think got occasionally paid by
FFlabs. (that is AFAIK it)

OTOH 43 developers in the GA are unrelated to FFLabs

so teh statement "is now a shallow annex of the FFlabs company." iam
not sure what facts that would be based on ...

That said, my wish was and is that FFlabs or a successor to FFlabs
would pay all the major developers of FFmpeg more or less in the order of
"git shortlog -s -n" excluding people inactive by choice.
For what _they_ (the developers themselfs) would consider important
to work on.

This is not FFlabs today, for mainly 2 reasons.
1. Not enough money really to pay more people
2. To get money, FFlabs needs to work on what customers pay for.

Now about your complaint about FFmpeg not being what you want.
If you cannot find a consensus with others, there is the Technical
Committee. You did not contact the TC.

Also, iam not sure you are entirely correct with your memory
FFmpeg certainly was more accepting with experimental, cutting edge
and at the border of FFmpegs scope things.

But I do not remember FFmpeg was ever accepting every random thing.

What has changed is the size of the community, more people means there
is a higher changce someone will disagree.
If you have an idea that makes sense for FFmpeg please try contacting
the Technical Committee if you cannot find a consensus.
If that fails, then we can discuss further. But dont be so negative
We can create a seperate branch where people can commit whatever they
want or some other more accepting ruleset. But this makes no sense
before an issue has even been raised with the TC

Thanks

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

Freedom in capitalist society always remains about the same as it was in
ancient Greek republics: Freedom for slave owners. -- Vladimir Lenin

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 15, 2024, 09:58 by kierank@obe.tv:

> On Sun, 14 Jan 2024, 17:24 Lynne, <dev@lynne.ee> wrote:
>
>> Jan 9, 2024, 19:57 by dev@lynne.ee:
>>
>> > Jan 3, 2024, 04:30 by dev@lynne.ee:
>> >
>> >> Jan 3, 2024, 04:04 by dev@lynne.ee:
>> >>
>> >>> Jan 3, 2024, 02:22 by jamrial@gmail.com:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 1/2/2024 9:56 PM, Lynne wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
>> >>>>> I've been working on a desktop machine, which is currently a Zen 3.
>> >>>>> AVX512 has become more popular in the meantime, with Zen 4
>> >>>>> and future AMD CPUs shipping with it, but currently, we have very
>> >>>>> little AVX512.
>> >>>>> In short, I'd like a machine which runs an AVX512-capable
>> >>>>> AMD CPU, and as the world is opening up more and more, I'd
>> >>>>> like for it to be portable.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I've looked around a lot, but as Intel still has a firm monopoly,
>> >>>>> the options are limited (7940H(S), 7945HX, 7845HX, 8945HS).
>> >>>>> What I think I've settled for is an ASUS Vivobook Pro 15, with a
>> >>>>> 7940HS CPU (the second least powerful Zen 4 mobile CPU),
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 7940HS is the highest Ryzen 9 model from the 7040 series. Not sure
>> where you got second least powerful from.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors#Phoenix_(7040_series,_Zen_4/RDNA3_based)
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Was reading Wikipedia, and thought it was a Zen 3, my mistake
>> >>> (and AMD's mistake for making 4 versioning formats):
>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>> currently trading for 1999.0 EUR on amazon.de.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vivobook-Display-R9-7940HS-Windows-Keyboard/dp/B0BRYTS8MR
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The other alternative I've found is a Lenovo Legion 7 Pro, but
>> >>>>> it's more expensive at 2399 EUR (currently seems temporarily
>> >>>>> discounted due to the holidays).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I see a Lenovo Yoga Pro 7 available for 1099 EUR.
>> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Lenovo-Display-Graphics-Blue-Green-Premium/dp/B0CGLPVQHK/
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Same amount of RAM, screen resolution and storage, and a Ryzen 7.
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> It's a good suggestion, but I have a better one, that's somewhat more
>> expensive,
>> >>> but has a better screen, better build quality, and is cheaper than the
>> Vivobook:
>> >>>
>> >>> A Lenovo ThinkPad P14s Gen 4 with the following options:
>> >>>  - Windows 14 Home (if you don't pick Windows, the OLED display is not
>> available for no reason)
>> >>>  - 32Gb of RAM
>> >>>  - 1Tb "performance" SSD (it's 70 EUR more, but twice the size)
>> >>>  - 2880x1800 OLED monitor
>> >>>  - 4-cell battery (only 10 EUR more)
>> >>>  - English (EU) keyboard, without backlighting
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K9CTO1WWDE2
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Correction: link I pasted was for the P16s, not the P14s, this is the
>> correct link:
>> >>
>> https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/configurator/cto/index.html?bundleId=21K5CTO1WWDE2
>> >>
>> >
>> > Ping. So far I have one approval from Michael.
>> >
>>
>> Ping.
>>
>
> I agree with Remi's objections to this.
>

Which ones, or all of them in general?
I've been pinging this for a week now and he hasn't reiterated
his position again or made it clearer.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

Le maanantaina 15. tammikuuta 2024, 16.59.40 EET Lynne a écrit :
> I've been pinging this for a week now and he hasn't reiterated
> his position again or made it clearer.

I think my position was clear. I don't see the point in rereiterating it 
whilst we are evidently not going to reach an agreement. Besides, you have 
previously complained that my explanations were unnecessarily long.

But since you bring it up and to sum up, I find completely reasonable for 
FFmpeg to provision hardware with the feature necessary to test your work, 
such as AVX-512 and Vulkan video decoding. But:
1) You already have been provided such hardware in the form of a desktop 
computer (and I am told that it was extremely expensive).
2) In general it makes more sense to get a desktop than a laptop for that 
purpose.

Leaving aside those specific hardware requirements, I think it is completely 
reasonable for you to have a laptop, as most of us probably do. But I also 
think that it is not reasonable for the foundation to pay for personal 
laptops.

Maybe you need a laptop specifically to work on FFmpeg for whatever reason. 
Then a cheap laptop for remote access, as Michael suggested, sounds like a 
reasonable compromise to me. Nevertheless, I think that:
- If your employment requires you to work away from your desktop a lot, then 
your employer should provide the laptop.
- If you want to work from your couch or from the beach (figuratively), that is 
really on you.

-- 
Rémi Denis-Courmont
http://www.remlab.net/



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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 15, 2024, 17:02 by remi@remlab.net:

> Le maanantaina 15. tammikuuta 2024, 16.59.40 EET Lynne a écrit :
>
>> I've been pinging this for a week now and he hasn't reiterated
>> his position again or made it clearer.
>>
>
> I think my position was clear. I don't see the point in rereiterating it 
> whilst we are evidently not going to reach an agreement. Besides, you have 
> previously complained that my explanations were unnecessarily long.
>
> But since you bring it up and to sum up, I find completely reasonable for 
> FFmpeg to provision hardware with the feature necessary to test your work, 
> such as AVX-512 and Vulkan video decoding. But:
> 1) You already have been provided such hardware in the form of a desktop 
> computer (and I am told that it was extremely expensive).
> 2) In general it makes more sense to get a desktop than a laptop for that 
> purpose.
>

I do not have AVX-512 capable system, and I iterated my concerns
with using a shared machine in another thread.


> Leaving aside those specific hardware requirements, I think it is completely 
> reasonable for you to have a laptop, as most of us probably do. But I also 
> think that it is not reasonable for the foundation to pay for personal 
> laptops.
>

It's a machine that I will use during travels too, specifically to do FFmpeg
development on.
We're not a foundation either, as far as I know - SPI manages the fund
completely, with only the liaison needing to make a request, provided
there's consensus.

If you think it's reasonable, you shouldn't block it.
If you have conditions, you should concisely state them.
If you think this is entirely unreasonable and falls outside of the scope of
the project's donation funds, then I would expect you to apply the
same pragmatic standards when it comes to future refund requests,
be it personal choices such as parking and travel expenses.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Kieran Kunhya]

>
> If you think it's reasonable, you shouldn't block it.
> If you have conditions, you should concisely state them.
> If you think this is entirely unreasonable and falls outside of the scope
> of
> the project's donation funds, then I would expect you to apply the
> same pragmatic standards when it comes to future refund requests,
> be it personal choices such as parking and travel expenses.
>

Your laptop choice is one of the most expensive in the market and likely
much more expensive than the laptop the majority of developers use.
Buy an 11th Gen Intel NUC and a cheap laptop and access it remotely.

By your own analogy you want SPI to pay for your First Class ticket from
London to New York when there are cheaper alternatives.

Kieran
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Michael Niedermayer]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1669 bytes --]

On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 06:50:37PM +0000, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
> >
> > If you think it's reasonable, you shouldn't block it.
> > If you have conditions, you should concisely state them.
> > If you think this is entirely unreasonable and falls outside of the scope
> > of
> > the project's donation funds, then I would expect you to apply the
> > same pragmatic standards when it comes to future refund requests,
> > be it personal choices such as parking and travel expenses.
> >
> 
> Your laptop choice is one of the most expensive in the market and likely
> much more expensive than the laptop the majority of developers use.
> Buy an 11th Gen Intel NUC and a cheap laptop and access it remotely.
> 
> By your own analogy you want SPI to pay for your First Class ticket from
> London to New York when there are cheaper alternatives.

I think Lynnes first choice was a ASUS vivo book

what about this one ?

https://geizhals.eu/asus-vivobook-14-f415ea-eb269-slate-grey-90nb0tt2-m03310-a2557528.html?hloc=at&hloc=de

Its a small 14inch ASUS vivo book with 11th gen Intel, non glare IPS screen for 349€
it has only 8gb which is non upgtadeable the disk iam sure can be upgraded if needed

or if you want a bigger notebook with upgradability to at least 16gb
check these
https://geizhals.de/?cmp=3061202&cmp=3025372&cmp=3009388&cmp=2894111&cmp=3083934&cmp=3027428&cmp=3081782&cmp=2986117&active=0
all below 500€
intel 11th gen or later, IPS screens

Thx

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

Republics decline into democracies and democracies degenerate into
despotisms. -- Aristotle

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 15, 2024, 19:51 by kierank@obe.tv:

>>
>> If you think it's reasonable, you shouldn't block it.
>> If you have conditions, you should concisely state them.
>> If you think this is entirely unreasonable and falls outside of the scope
>> of
>> the project's donation funds, then I would expect you to apply the
>> same pragmatic standards when it comes to future refund requests,
>> be it personal choices such as parking and travel expenses.
>>
>
> Your laptop choice is one of the most expensive in the market and likely
> much more expensive than the laptop the majority of developers use.
> Buy an 11th Gen Intel NUC and a cheap laptop and access it remotely.
>

Would you accept jamrial's proposal? It's around a thousand EUR,
and it's essentially got the features of both.


> By your own analogy you want SPI to pay for your First Class ticket from
> London to New York when there are cheaper alternatives.
>

A ticket doesn't have durability.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Kieran Kunhya]

>
> A ticket doesn't have durability.
>

A Ryzen 5 vs Ryzen 7 in the same laptop chassis doesn't change its
durability, it only doubles the laptop's price.

Kieran
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Paul B Mahol]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 11:06 AM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:

> >
> > A ticket doesn't have durability.
> >
>
> A Ryzen 5 vs Ryzen 7 in the same laptop chassis doesn't change its
> durability, it only doubles the laptop's price.
>

Are you CEO of FFmpeg or FFlabs now?


>
> Kieran
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Kieran Kunhya]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2024, 11:50 Paul B Mahol, <onemda@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 11:06 AM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > A ticket doesn't have durability.
> > >
> >
> > A Ryzen 5 vs Ryzen 7 in the same laptop chassis doesn't change its
> > durability, it only doubles the laptop's price.
> >
>
> Are you CEO of FFmpeg or FFlabs now?
>

I'm CEO of librempeg and librempeglabs.

Kieran

>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 16, 2024, 11:06 by kierank@obe.tv:

>>
>> A ticket doesn't have durability.
>>
>
> A Ryzen 5 vs Ryzen 7 in the same laptop chassis doesn't change its
> durability, it only doubles the laptop's price.
>

It doubles the number of registers and expands the number
of instructions available. The price isn't doubled.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Michael Niedermayer]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1016 bytes --]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 03:59:43PM +0100, Lynne wrote:
> Jan 16, 2024, 11:06 by kierank@obe.tv:
> 
> >>
> >> A ticket doesn't have durability.
> >>
> >
> > A Ryzen 5 vs Ryzen 7 in the same laptop chassis doesn't change its
> > durability, it only doubles the laptop's price.
> >
> 
> It doubles the number of registers and expands the number
> of instructions available. The price isn't doubled.

Is there some reference which lists which chip supports what ?
iam really loosing track of this, this was simpler years ago
i assumed there was no difference between zen 4 chips in instruction
set support

also what exactly are your requirements for the new machiene
and what are the "nice to have" things ?

also what is the expected lifetime of this, how long will the
new machiene be sufficient?

thx

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a
revolutionary act. -- George Orwell

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 17, 2024, 14:37 by michael@niedermayer.cc:

> On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 03:59:43PM +0100, Lynne wrote:
>
>> Jan 16, 2024, 11:06 by kierank@obe.tv:
>>
>> >>
>> >> A ticket doesn't have durability.
>> >>
>> >
>> > A Ryzen 5 vs Ryzen 7 in the same laptop chassis doesn't change its
>> > durability, it only doubles the laptop's price.
>> >
>>
>> It doubles the number of registers and expands the number
>> of instructions available. The price isn't doubled.
>>
>
> Is there some reference which lists which chip supports what ?
> iam really loosing track of this, this was simpler years ago
> i assumed there was no difference between zen 4 chips in instruction
> set support
>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Ryzen_processors#Phoenix_(7040_series,_Zen_4/RDNA3_based)


> also what exactly are your requirements for the new machiene
> and what are the "nice to have" things ?
>
> also what is the expected lifetime of this, how long will the
> new machiene be sufficient?
>

I run things until they don't, and then keep them running anyway.

I also have a second broken laptop, an XPS 15 from 2016.
Its internals are working, but it's missing a battery, a display,
and it's got a broken keyboard and a fan that's broken.
I'm not sure I have the skills to replace the keyboard, but I can try.
It's a high-spec 4-core machine with 16Gb of RAM, and still very
usable these days, but it'll take around 400 dollars to repair,
as a new original screen is expensive (290), battery isn't cheap (60),
and parts are in general in demand as it's out of support by now.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Michael Niedermayer]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2367 bytes --]

On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 04:39:21PM +0100, Lynne wrote:
> Jan 17, 2024, 14:37 by michael@niedermayer.cc:
[...]
> > also what exactly are your requirements for the new machiene
> > and what are the "nice to have" things ?
> >
> > also what is the expected lifetime of this, how long will the
> > new machiene be sufficient?
> >
> 
> I run things until they don't, and then keep them running anyway.
> 
> I also have a second broken laptop, an XPS 15 from 2016.
> Its internals are working, but it's missing a battery, a display,
> and it's got a broken keyboard and a fan that's broken.

Thats a lot of broken things.


> I'm not sure I have the skills to replace the keyboard, but I can try.

Well, if the notebook is broken, theres not that much you would loose

I suggest, to look at youtube there are some videos for many notebook
disassembly and reassembly.
Also make sure you have a well lit space, space for each screw, no stress
and MUCH more time than you expect. If someone on youtube does it in 30min
you will need 3 hours.
Also (maybe less when theres a video as reference) but i tend to take
picture after each step of disassembly so i can check how things where
exactly before disassembly.
Also make sure you have the right tools, a screwdriver that doesnt fit
exactly can mess up screws, similarly all these funky tools to pry things
apart.
Also expect that some parts will have fewer plastic hooks afterwards.

If you get stuck somewhere, like with some connector notz comming loose
or something, just take a break and ask / sleep over it.
I remember stubborn connectors on my notebook, so far they all came loose
before they broke


> It's a high-spec 4-core machine with 16Gb of RAM, and still very
> usable these days, but it'll take around 400 dollars to repair,
> as a new original screen is expensive (290), battery isn't cheap (60),
> and parts are in general in demand as it's out of support by now.

well i would certainly support ffmpeg-SPI paying for these parts
if it helps you.

thx

PS: replacment parts from china are not always working after shipment
ive had some problem with a new fan for a notebook once.


[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal.
-- Aristotle

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 18, 2024, 04:29 by michael@niedermayer.cc:

> On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 04:39:21PM +0100, Lynne wrote:
>
>> Jan 17, 2024, 14:37 by michael@niedermayer.cc:
>>
> [...]
>
>> > also what exactly are your requirements for the new machiene
>> > and what are the "nice to have" things ?
>> >
>> > also what is the expected lifetime of this, how long will the
>> > new machiene be sufficient?
>> >
>>
>> I run things until they don't, and then keep them running anyway.
>>
>> I also have a second broken laptop, an XPS 15 from 2016.
>> Its internals are working, but it's missing a battery, a display,
>> and it's got a broken keyboard and a fan that's broken.
>>
>
> Thats a lot of broken things.
>

It's what happens to portable machines.
The 2mm machined aluminium body did protect the internals though.


>> I'm not sure I have the skills to replace the keyboard, but I can try.
>>
>
> Well, if the notebook is broken, theres not that much you would loose
>
> I suggest, to look at youtube there are some videos for many notebook
> disassembly and reassembly.
> Also make sure you have a well lit space, space for each screw, no stress
> and MUCH more time than you expect. If someone on youtube does it in 30min
> you will need 3 hours.
> Also (maybe less when theres a video as reference) but i tend to take
> picture after each step of disassembly so i can check how things where
> exactly before disassembly.
> Also make sure you have the right tools, a screwdriver that doesnt fit
> exactly can mess up screws, similarly all these funky tools to pry things
> apart.
> Also expect that some parts will have fewer plastic hooks afterwards.
>
> If you get stuck somewhere, like with some connector notz comming loose
> or something, just take a break and ask / sleep over it.
> I remember stubborn connectors on my notebook, so far they all came loose
> before they broke
>
>
>> It's a high-spec 4-core machine with 16Gb of RAM, and still very
>> usable these days, but it'll take around 400 dollars to repair,
>> as a new original screen is expensive (290), battery isn't cheap (60),
>> and parts are in general in demand as it's out of support by now.
>>
>
> well i would certainly support ffmpeg-SPI paying for these parts
> if it helps you.
>

Right, thanks. But would the main two currently objecting agree?
I don't think they monitor this thread anymore, but their objections stand.


> thx
>
> PS: replacment parts from china are not always working after shipment
> ive had some problem with a new fan for a notebook once.
>

Yeah, the screen in particular is rare, and most of it is sold by
93% approved users on ebay. May be tricky, but it's worth a try.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Steve Williams via ffmpeg-devel]

You know, you could have flipped some burgers & made enough for that 
laptop by now.

Sometimes the obvious way is the way.

On 18/01/2024 06:07, Lynne wrote:
> Jan 18, 2024, 04:29 by michael@niedermayer.cc:
>
>> On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 04:39:21PM +0100, Lynne wrote:
>>
>>> Jan 17, 2024, 14:37 by michael@niedermayer.cc:
>>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>> also what exactly are your requirements for the new machiene
>>>> and what are the "nice to have" things ?
>>>>
>>>> also what is the expected lifetime of this, how long will the
>>>> new machiene be sufficient?
>>>>
>>> I run things until they don't, and then keep them running anyway.
>>>
>>> I also have a second broken laptop, an XPS 15 from 2016.
>>> Its internals are working, but it's missing a battery, a display,
>>> and it's got a broken keyboard and a fan that's broken.
>>>
>> Thats a lot of broken things.
>>
> It's what happens to portable machines.
> The 2mm machined aluminium body did protect the internals though.
>
>
>>> I'm not sure I have the skills to replace the keyboard, but I can try.
>>>
>> Well, if the notebook is broken, theres not that much you would loose
>>
>> I suggest, to look at youtube there are some videos for many notebook
>> disassembly and reassembly.
>> Also make sure you have a well lit space, space for each screw, no stress
>> and MUCH more time than you expect. If someone on youtube does it in 30min
>> you will need 3 hours.
>> Also (maybe less when theres a video as reference) but i tend to take
>> picture after each step of disassembly so i can check how things where
>> exactly before disassembly.
>> Also make sure you have the right tools, a screwdriver that doesnt fit
>> exactly can mess up screws, similarly all these funky tools to pry things
>> apart.
>> Also expect that some parts will have fewer plastic hooks afterwards.
>>
>> If you get stuck somewhere, like with some connector notz comming loose
>> or something, just take a break and ask / sleep over it.
>> I remember stubborn connectors on my notebook, so far they all came loose
>> before they broke
>>
>>
>>> It's a high-spec 4-core machine with 16Gb of RAM, and still very
>>> usable these days, but it'll take around 400 dollars to repair,
>>> as a new original screen is expensive (290), battery isn't cheap (60),
>>> and parts are in general in demand as it's out of support by now.
>>>
>> well i would certainly support ffmpeg-SPI paying for these parts
>> if it helps you.
>>
> Right, thanks. But would the main two currently objecting agree?
> I don't think they monitor this thread anymore, but their objections stand.
>
>
>> thx
>>
>> PS: replacment parts from china are not always working after shipment
>> ive had some problem with a new fan for a notebook once.
>>
> Yeah, the screen in particular is rare, and most of it is sold by
> 93% approved users on ebay. May be tricky, but it's worth a try.
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-- 
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Steve Williams
Managing Director
Advance Software Limited

Skype: steve--w

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Kieran Kunhya]

> >> It's a high-spec 4-core machine with 16Gb of RAM, and still very
> >> usable these days, but it'll take around 400 dollars to repair,
> >> as a new original screen is expensive (290), battery isn't cheap (60),
> >> and parts are in general in demand as it's out of support by now.
> >>
> >
> > well i would certainly support ffmpeg-SPI paying for these parts
> > if it helps you.
> >
>
> Right, thanks. But would the main two currently objecting agree?
> I don't think they monitor this thread anymore, but their objections stand.
>

I object to buying parts that may not work, or the install may not go well
(I tried repairing my old XPS and it was not simple and I broke the screen).
I don't think "worth a try" is fair to FFmpeg donors.

Kieran
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Paul B Mahol]

On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 10:53 AM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:

> > >> It's a high-spec 4-core machine with 16Gb of RAM, and still very
> > >> usable these days, but it'll take around 400 dollars to repair,
> > >> as a new original screen is expensive (290), battery isn't cheap (60),
> > >> and parts are in general in demand as it's out of support by now.
> > >>
> > >
> > > well i would certainly support ffmpeg-SPI paying for these parts
> > > if it helps you.
> > >
> >
> > Right, thanks. But would the main two currently objecting agree?
> > I don't think they monitor this thread anymore, but their objections
> stand.
> >
>
> I object to buying parts that may not work, or the install may not go well
> (I tried repairing my old XPS and it was not simple and I broke the
> screen).
> I don't think "worth a try" is fair to FFmpeg donors.
>

Just kill the project and take all the money already.


>
> Kieran
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Kieran Kunhya]

On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 at 09:55, Paul B Mahol <onemda@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 10:53 AM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
>
> > > >> It's a high-spec 4-core machine with 16Gb of RAM, and still very
> > > >> usable these days, but it'll take around 400 dollars to repair,
> > > >> as a new original screen is expensive (290), battery isn't cheap
> (60),
> > > >> and parts are in general in demand as it's out of support by now.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > well i would certainly support ffmpeg-SPI paying for these parts
> > > > if it helps you.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Right, thanks. But would the main two currently objecting agree?
> > > I don't think they monitor this thread anymore, but their objections
> > stand.
> > >
> >
> > I object to buying parts that may not work, or the install may not go
> well
> > (I tried repairing my old XPS and it was not simple and I broke the
> > screen).
> > I don't think "worth a try" is fair to FFmpeg donors.
> >
>
> Just kill the project and take all the money already.
>

How would buying parts even work, hardware is the property of SPI. How can
SPI own half a laptop?
For reference all the hardware I host for FFmpeg reimbursed by SPI has a
"property of FFmpeg project" sticker on it.

Regards,
Kieran Kunhya
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Paul B Mahol]

On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 10:57 AM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 at 09:55, Paul B Mahol <onemda@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 10:53 AM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
> >
> > > > >> It's a high-spec 4-core machine with 16Gb of RAM, and still very
> > > > >> usable these days, but it'll take around 400 dollars to repair,
> > > > >> as a new original screen is expensive (290), battery isn't cheap
> > (60),
> > > > >> and parts are in general in demand as it's out of support by now.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > well i would certainly support ffmpeg-SPI paying for these parts
> > > > > if it helps you.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Right, thanks. But would the main two currently objecting agree?
> > > > I don't think they monitor this thread anymore, but their objections
> > > stand.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I object to buying parts that may not work, or the install may not go
> > well
> > > (I tried repairing my old XPS and it was not simple and I broke the
> > > screen).
> > > I don't think "worth a try" is fair to FFmpeg donors.
> > >
> >
> > Just kill the project and take all the money already.
> >
>
> How would buying parts even work, hardware is the property of SPI. How can
> SPI own half a laptop?
>

So SPI actually own FFmpeg money any anything bought with such money.

Wonders of modern world...


> For reference all the hardware I host for FFmpeg reimbursed by SPI has a
> "property of FFmpeg project" sticker on it.
>
> Regards,
> Kieran Kunhya
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> ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
>
> To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email
> ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Michael Niedermayer]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1860 bytes --]

Hi

On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 09:57:27AM +0000, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 at 09:55, Paul B Mahol <onemda@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 10:53 AM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
> >
> > > > >> It's a high-spec 4-core machine with 16Gb of RAM, and still very
> > > > >> usable these days, but it'll take around 400 dollars to repair,
> > > > >> as a new original screen is expensive (290), battery isn't cheap
> > (60),
> > > > >> and parts are in general in demand as it's out of support by now.
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > well i would certainly support ffmpeg-SPI paying for these parts
> > > > > if it helps you.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Right, thanks. But would the main two currently objecting agree?
> > > > I don't think they monitor this thread anymore, but their objections
> > > stand.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I object to buying parts that may not work, or the install may not go
> > well
> > > (I tried repairing my old XPS and it was not simple and I broke the
> > > screen).
> > > I don't think "worth a try" is fair to FFmpeg donors.
> > >
> >
> > Just kill the project and take all the money already.
> >
> 
> How would buying parts even work, hardware is the property of SPI.

"Substantial equipment, software or other assets valued at over $300 which an associated project purchases with SPI funds are owned by SPI."

IMHO a replacement screen for 290 would not fall under this.

also this is a legal/tax thing, SPI further writes
"The equipment will be used and maintained by the project but SPI will hold legal ownership."

Thx

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny 
individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities. - Ayn Rand

[-- Attachment #1.2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 195 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 251 bytes --]

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 18, 2024, 09:42 by ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org:

> You know, you could have flipped some burgers & made enough for that laptop by now.
>
> Sometimes the obvious way is the way.
>
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Steve Williams
> Managing Director
> Advance Software Limited
>
> Skype: steve--w
>
> <><> Infinity is here...
>
> How does your organisation plan to exploit the immersive web opportunity ?
>
> Visit our 3D web portal : http://infinity-online.net
>
> Add an immersive web interface to your site today : http://advance-software.com/templates
>
> https://www.facebook.com/advance.sw
>
> Twitter : @AdvanceSoftware
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/advsw
> https://youtube.com/AdvanceSoftware
>

Or I could LARP as a managing director of a company on mailing lists.

Keep your spam out of here and your drivel further away.
This mailing list is for developers.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 18, 2024, 05:07 by dev@lynne.ee:

> Jan 18, 2024, 04:29 by michael@niedermayer.cc:
>
>> On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 04:39:21PM +0100, Lynne wrote:
>>
>>> Jan 17, 2024, 14:37 by michael@niedermayer.cc:
>>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> > also what exactly are your requirements for the new machiene
>>> > and what are the "nice to have" things ?
>>> >
>>> > also what is the expected lifetime of this, how long will the
>>> > new machiene be sufficient?
>>> >
>>>
>>> I run things until they don't, and then keep them running anyway.
>>>
>>> I also have a second broken laptop, an XPS 15 from 2016.
>>> Its internals are working, but it's missing a battery, a display,
>>> and it's got a broken keyboard and a fan that's broken.
>>>
>>
>> Thats a lot of broken things.
>>
>
> It's what happens to portable machines.
> The 2mm machined aluminium body did protect the internals though.
>
>
>>> I'm not sure I have the skills to replace the keyboard, but I can try.
>>>
>>
>> Well, if the notebook is broken, theres not that much you would loose
>>
>> I suggest, to look at youtube there are some videos for many notebook
>> disassembly and reassembly.
>> Also make sure you have a well lit space, space for each screw, no stress
>> and MUCH more time than you expect. If someone on youtube does it in 30min
>> you will need 3 hours.
>> Also (maybe less when theres a video as reference) but i tend to take
>> picture after each step of disassembly so i can check how things where
>> exactly before disassembly.
>> Also make sure you have the right tools, a screwdriver that doesnt fit
>> exactly can mess up screws, similarly all these funky tools to pry things
>> apart.
>> Also expect that some parts will have fewer plastic hooks afterwards.
>>
>> If you get stuck somewhere, like with some connector notz comming loose
>> or something, just take a break and ask / sleep over it.
>> I remember stubborn connectors on my notebook, so far they all came loose
>> before they broke
>>
>>
>>> It's a high-spec 4-core machine with 16Gb of RAM, and still very
>>> usable these days, but it'll take around 400 dollars to repair,
>>> as a new original screen is expensive (290), battery isn't cheap (60),
>>> and parts are in general in demand as it's out of support by now.
>>>
>>
>> well i would certainly support ffmpeg-SPI paying for these parts
>> if it helps you.
>>
>
> Right, thanks. But would the main two currently objecting agree?
> I don't think they monitor this thread anymore, but their objections stand.
>
>
>> thx
>>
>> PS: replacment parts from china are not always working after shipment
>> ive had some problem with a new fan for a notebook once.
>>
>
> Yeah, the screen in particular is rare, and most of it is sold by
> 93% approved users on ebay. May be tricky, but it's worth a try.
>

Request is dropped.
If anyone wants to discuss relevant points in this thread further,
create another thread. I will not participate in that discussion.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

Le keskiviikkona 3. tammikuuta 2024, 2.56.12 EET Lynne a écrit :
> As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
> I've been working on a desktop machine, which is currently a Zen 3.
> AVX512 has become more popular in the meantime, with Zen 4
> and future AMD CPUs shipping with it, but currently, we have very
> little AVX512.

Frankly, generally speaking, I don't think it makes sense to buy laptops for 
development *unless* desktop systems are not an option.

And here, a desktop system is not only an option, but it is the technically 
better and already purchased option. A desktop is cheaper, more faster, more 
serviceable and more incrementally upgradeable. More prosaically a desktop 
system is much more suitable to occupational well-being - laptops are awfully 
inadequate in terms of ergonomy, unless they are docked, at which point they 
become expensive under-provisioned desktops.

A laptop would of course be necessary whilst spending extended periods of your 
time away from home. But if so, that would be a discretionary choice of life 
style choice. There is nothing wrong with doing that per se, but I really 
don't think that an open-source foundation should be addressing discretionary 
life style choices.

-- 
雷米‧德尼-库尔蒙
http://www.remlab.net/



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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Kieran Kunhya]

On Fri, 5 Jan 2024, 17:25 Rémi Denis-Courmont, <remi@remlab.net> wrote:

> Le keskiviikkona 3. tammikuuta 2024, 2.56.12 EET Lynne a écrit :
> > As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
> > I've been working on a desktop machine, which is currently a Zen 3.
> > AVX512 has become more popular in the meantime, with Zen 4
> > and future AMD CPUs shipping with it, but currently, we have very
> > little AVX512.
>
> Frankly, generally speaking, I don't think it makes sense to buy laptops
> for
> development *unless* desktop systems are not an option.
>
> And here, a desktop system is not only an option, but it is the
> technically
> better and already purchased option. A desktop is cheaper, more faster,
> more
> serviceable and more incrementally upgradeable. More prosaically a desktop
> system is much more suitable to occupational well-being - laptops are
> awfully
> inadequate in terms of ergonomy, unless they are docked, at which point
> they
> become expensive under-provisioned desktops.
>
> A laptop would of course be necessary whilst spending extended periods of
> your
> time away from home. But if so, that would be a discretionary choice of
> life
> style choice. There is nothing wrong with doing that per se, but I really
> don't think that an open-source foundation should be addressing
> discretionary
> life style choices.
>

Furthermore there is already an AVX-512 development machine I host for
FFmpeg that several developers use.

Kieran

>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 5, 2024, 18:25 by remi@remlab.net:

> Le keskiviikkona 3. tammikuuta 2024, 2.56.12 EET Lynne a écrit :
>
>> As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
>> I've been working on a desktop machine, which is currently a Zen 3.
>> AVX512 has become more popular in the meantime, with Zen 4
>> and future AMD CPUs shipping with it, but currently, we have very
>> little AVX512.
>>
>
> Frankly, generally speaking, I don't think it makes sense to buy laptops for 
> development *unless* desktop systems are not an option.
>
> And here, a desktop system is not only an option, but it is the technically 
> better and already purchased option. A desktop is cheaper, more faster, more 
> serviceable and more incrementally upgradeable. More prosaically a desktop 
> system is much more suitable to occupational well-being - laptops are awfully 
> inadequate in terms of ergonomy, unless they are docked, at which point they 
> become expensive under-provisioned desktops.
>

Emergencies could happen, but progress must always happen.
We have a lot of donations, but no real way to spend them, let alone agree
on anything to do with them. I think that we could spend a little bit of it,
even if it's not the absolute most efficient and optimized way, that would
allow a developer to work even when needing travelling, while still being useful
when not.

Also, I think some developers here would disagree with the notion that desktop
machines are always the best option, and I think I that subjects such as ergonomy,
uselessness when not docked, being less serviceable, are subjective metrics.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

Le lauantaina 6. tammikuuta 2024, 12.38.28 EET Lynne a écrit :
> Emergencies could happen, but progress must always happen.

Laptops are more prone to breaking, and as already noted less serviceable. The 
whole premise is that your current laptop broke after just 2 years, while the 
normally (fiscally) expected lifetime of a laptop is 3 years.

Don't get me wrong! I don't deny that emergencies of that sort do happen to 
software engineers. Considering the "running cost" of a skilled software 
engineer, many employers will want to minimise the risk that they get bogged 
down by lack of a development computer, and the inability to carry a laptop 
with them on business trips.

But then, whose emergency would are they exactly? If an entity has dire needs 
of your continued ability to work, then they should take the measures and 
costs. That's just not something that the FFmpeg foundation should bare. 
Except maybe for Michael, I think the project will do just fine if any 
developer is out of a computer for a week, to be honest.

Finally, the flip side of this is that the ergonomy and performance of your 
FFmpeg development environment is at least as critical, if not more, to your 
continued ability to work. In other words, if a developer is critical to the 
project, then it is detrimental to the project if they use a laptop, because 
laptops are slower and less healthy.

> Also, I think some developers here would disagree with the notion that
> desktop machines are always the best option, and I think I that subjects
> such as ergonomy, uselessness when not docked,

That's simply not a matter of subjective opinion of an hypothetical developer. 
The point about ergonomy is generally accepted among specialists based on 
serious studies. And by specialists I mean medical doctors and occupational 
healthcare therapists, not FFmpeg developers. That's not "subjective" in my 
book.

> being less serviceable, are
> subjective metrics.

How about you count the number of parts that can be independently replaced in 
a laptop vs a desktop. Care to explain how that metric is a "subjective" 
exactly? And that's not even counting that some of the serviceable laptop 
parts are more or less model-dependent.

-- 
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http://www.remlab.net/
 


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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 6, 2024, 12:10 by remi@remlab.net:

> Le lauantaina 6. tammikuuta 2024, 12.38.28 EET Lynne a écrit :
>
>> Emergencies could happen, but progress must always happen.
>>
>
> Laptops are more prone to breaking, and as already noted less serviceable. The 
> whole premise is that your current laptop broke after just 2 years, while the 
> normally (fiscally) expected lifetime of a laptop is 3 years.
>
> Don't get me wrong! I don't deny that emergencies of that sort do happen to 
> software engineers. Considering the "running cost" of a skilled software 
> engineer, many employers will want to minimise the risk that they get bogged 
> down by lack of a development computer, and the inability to carry a laptop 
> with them on business trips.
>
> But then, whose emergency would are they exactly? If an entity has dire needs 
> of your continued ability to work, then they should take the measures and 
> costs. That's just not something that the FFmpeg foundation should bare. 
> Except maybe for Michael, I think the project will do just fine if any 
> developer is out of a computer for a week, to be honest.
>

A fire would put me out for much more than a week tbh.
Other than that, occasional trips, during which reviews still have to be made.
Plus, power analysis of whether AVX512 helps on current-gen mobile devices.
I don't see this as being too big of a thing to ask for, considering how much we
have and how much we receive each year, and how very rarely requests are done.
Nor something that deserves a lengthy article on the benefits, ergonomics,
and ongoing maintenance of desktop versus mobile systems.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

Le lauantaina 6. tammikuuta 2024, 18.13.33 EET Lynne a écrit :
> A fire would put me out for much more than a week tbh.

What aboutism much? In this case, you would loose your internet access, and 
potentially spend a long time hospitalised.

You're dodging the real issues here: why should *you* get a laptop? Sure, some 
of the stuff that you do will with high probability become important in the 
medium term (e.g. Vulkan video decoding stuff), but it does not seem so urgent 
as to justify purchasing a second computer. The foundation already invested in 
a well-above average price to equip you with a suitable desktop system for 
your development. It would be far more sensible to spend on updated or 
replacement parts for that system as needed, than to buy a whole new system 
just in case.

Furthermore, there are quite a few key developers and system adminstrators in 
the project whose continued ability to work is at least equally critical.

> Other than that, occasional trips, during which reviews still have to be
> made. Plus, power analysis of whether AVX512 helps on current-gen mobile
> devices. I don't see this as being too big of a thing to ask for,
> considering how much we have and how much we receive each year, and how
> very rarely requests are done. Nor something that deserves a lengthy
> article on the benefits, ergonomics, and ongoing maintenance of desktop
> versus mobile systems.

Indeed, you should not have made the preposterous argument that my points were 
"subjective" when they were not. Then I would not have had to waste time 
elaborating.

-- 
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 6, 2024, 18:57 by remi@remlab.net:

> Le lauantaina 6. tammikuuta 2024, 18.13.33 EET Lynne a écrit :
>
>> A fire would put me out for much more than a week tbh.
>>
>
> What aboutism much? In this case, you would loose your internet access, and 
> potentially spend a long time hospitalised.
>
> You're dodging the real issues here: why should *you* get a laptop?
>

Because I need one, and we have resources?


> of the stuff that you do will with high probability become important in the 
> medium term (e.g. Vulkan video decoding stuff), but it does not seem so urgent 
> as to justify purchasing a second computer. The foundation already invested in 
> a well-above average price to equip you with a suitable desktop system for 
> your development. It would be far more sensible to spend on updated or 
> replacement parts for that system as needed, than to buy a whole new system 
> just in case.
>

I'm quite happy with my current system. I've also contributed internally by
providing a few developers with hardware for free from big companies myself.


> Furthermore, there are quite a few key developers and system adminstrators in 
> the project whose continued ability to work is at least equally critical.
>

Most of them already have laptops.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 6, 2024, 17:13 by dev@lynne.ee:

> Jan 6, 2024, 12:10 by remi@remlab.net:
>
>> Le lauantaina 6. tammikuuta 2024, 12.38.28 EET Lynne a écrit :
>>
>>> Emergencies could happen, but progress must always happen.
>>>
>>
>> Laptops are more prone to breaking, and as already noted less serviceable. The 
>> whole premise is that your current laptop broke after just 2 years, while the 
>> normally (fiscally) expected lifetime of a laptop is 3 years.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong! I don't deny that emergencies of that sort do happen to 
>> software engineers. Considering the "running cost" of a skilled software 
>> engineer, many employers will want to minimise the risk that they get bogged 
>> down by lack of a development computer, and the inability to carry a laptop 
>> with them on business trips.
>>
>> But then, whose emergency would are they exactly? If an entity has dire needs 
>> of your continued ability to work, then they should take the measures and 
>> costs. That's just not something that the FFmpeg foundation should bare. 
>> Except maybe for Michael, I think the project will do just fine if any 
>> developer is out of a computer for a week, to be honest.
>>
>
> A fire would put me out for much more than a week tbh.
> Other than that, occasional trips, during which reviews still have to be made.
> Plus, power analysis of whether AVX512 helps on current-gen mobile devices.
> I don't see this as being too big of a thing to ask for, considering how much we
> have and how much we receive each year, and how very rarely requests are done.
> Nor something that deserves a lengthy article on the benefits, ergonomics,
> and ongoing maintenance of desktop versus mobile systems.
>

As for whether this is a lifestyle choice, we generally pay for anything
that involves conferences, from train tickets, planes, parking, and sometimes
for location/stand rent. I'm asking for a useful bit of permanent hardware.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

Le lauantaina 6. tammikuuta 2024, 18.21.00 EET Lynne a écrit :
> As for whether this is a lifestyle choice, we generally pay for anything
> that involves conferences, from train tickets, planes, parking, and
> sometimes for location/stand rent.

I would personally agree that representing FFmpeg at (non-FFmpeg-specific) 
conferences is a choice of life style. But it is normal to refund reasonable 
expenses made to represent the project.

> I'm asking for a useful bit of permanent hardware.

I don't question that providing you with one development system with the 
relevant Vulkan hardware support and AVX-512 is (or was) justified. If you do 
all the work for free (or paid by some other entity than FFmpeg), that's 
indeed excellent ROI.

But the "business" case for a *second* system with all the disadvantages of a 
laptop is frankly not so clear.

-- 
Rémi Denis-Courmont
http://www.remlab.net/



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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Michael Niedermayer]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1977 bytes --]

On Sat, Jan 06, 2024 at 08:11:51PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> Le lauantaina 6. tammikuuta 2024, 18.21.00 EET Lynne a écrit :
> > As for whether this is a lifestyle choice, we generally pay for anything
> > that involves conferences, from train tickets, planes, parking, and
> > sometimes for location/stand rent.
> 
> I would personally agree that representing FFmpeg at (non-FFmpeg-specific) 
> conferences is a choice of life style. But it is normal to refund reasonable 
> expenses made to represent the project.
> 
> > I'm asking for a useful bit of permanent hardware.
> 
> I don't question that providing you with one development system with the 
> relevant Vulkan hardware support and AVX-512 is (or was) justified. If you do 
> all the work for free (or paid by some other entity than FFmpeg), that's 
> indeed excellent ROI.
> 
> But the "business" case for a *second* system with all the disadvantages of a 
> laptop is frankly not so clear.

I think some kind of remotely usable system does make sense for every volunteer
who wants to work. It simply results in more available time for that work.

Even i (who doesnt travel volunteerly around) have needed and used my notebook
for FFmpeg away from my desktop system many times.
When ive spend some time in appartments of other familiy members, when i had to
change my own apartment due to very noisy neighbors and so forth

Maybe a compromise would be a cheap laptop that is just used to login and
access the more powerfull hardware via SSH ?

But IMO having _nothing_ to work on FFmpeg when one wants to work on FFmpeg
seems a kind of bad setup for FFmpeg.

thx

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

Breaking DRM is a little like attempting to break through a door even
though the window is wide open and the only thing in the house is a bunch
of things you dont want and which you would get tomorrow for free anyway

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

Le 6 janvier 2024 20:26:42 GMT+02:00, Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc> a écrit : 
>
>I think some kind of remotely usable system does make sense for every volunteer
>who wants to work. It simply results in more available time for that work.
>
>Even i (who doesnt travel volunteerly around) have needed and used my notebook
>for FFmpeg away from my desktop system many times.
>When ive spend some time in appartments of other familiy members, when i had to
>change my own apartment due to very noisy neighbors and so forth
>
>Maybe a compromise would be a cheap laptop that is just used to login and
>access the more powerfull hardware via SSH ?

That sounds much more sensible indeed.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 6, 2024, 21:15 by remi@remlab.net:

>
>
> Le 6 janvier 2024 20:26:42 GMT+02:00, Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc> a écrit :
>
>>
>>
> >I think some kind of remotely usable system does make sense for every volunteer
> >who wants to work. It simply results in more available time for that work.
>
>>
>>
> >Even i (who doesnt travel volunteerly around) have needed and used my notebook
> >for FFmpeg away from my desktop system many times.
> >When ive spend some time in appartments of other familiy members, when i had to
> >change my own apartment due to very noisy neighbors and so forth
>
>>
>>
> >Maybe a compromise would be a cheap laptop that is just used to login and
> >access the more powerfull hardware via SSH ?
>
> That sounds much more sensible indeed.
>

To address your concerns about limited lifetime and durability,
I chose the ThinkPad. It's not a +2k eur Macbook, it's serviceable,
and I can still do stuff with it that I can't do on my current setups.
We have many times more than enough to cover it, and make no
impact on the project's finances.
I could agree to jamrial's suggestion too, though I don't think it
would be as durable or problem-free.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Kieran Kunhya]

On Sat, 6 Jan 2024, 16:06 Lynne, <dev@lynne.ee> wrote:

> Jan 6, 2024, 21:15 by remi@remlab.net:
>
> >
> >
> > Le 6 janvier 2024 20:26:42 GMT+02:00, Michael Niedermayer <
> michael@niedermayer.cc> a écrit :
> >
> >>
> >>
> > >I think some kind of remotely usable system does make sense for every
> volunteer
> > >who wants to work. It simply results in more available time for that
> work.
> >
> >>
> >>
> > >Even i (who doesnt travel volunteerly around) have needed and used my
> notebook
> > >for FFmpeg away from my desktop system many times.
> > >When ive spend some time in appartments of other familiy members, when
> i had to
> > >change my own apartment due to very noisy neighbors and so forth
> >
> >>
> >>
> > >Maybe a compromise would be a cheap laptop that is just used to login
> and
> > >access the more powerfull hardware via SSH ?
> >
> > That sounds much more sensible indeed.
> >
>
> To address your concerns about limited lifetime and durability,
> I chose the ThinkPad. It's not a +2k eur Macbook, it's serviceable,
> and I can still do stuff with it that I can't do on my current setups.
> We have many times more than enough to cover it, and make no
> impact on the project's finances.
> I could agree to jamrial's suggestion too, though I don't think it
> would be as durable or problem-free.
>

But didn't you say the ThinkPad doesn't support AVX-512?

Kieran

>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 7, 2024, 00:36 by kierank@obe.tv:

> On Sat, 6 Jan 2024, 16:06 Lynne, <dev@lynne.ee> wrote:
>
>> Jan 6, 2024, 21:15 by remi@remlab.net:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Le 6 janvier 2024 20:26:42 GMT+02:00, Michael Niedermayer <
>> michael@niedermayer.cc> a écrit :
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> > >I think some kind of remotely usable system does make sense for every
>> volunteer
>> > >who wants to work. It simply results in more available time for that
>> work.
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> > >Even i (who doesnt travel volunteerly around) have needed and used my
>> notebook
>> > >for FFmpeg away from my desktop system many times.
>> > >When ive spend some time in appartments of other familiy members, when
>> i had to
>> > >change my own apartment due to very noisy neighbors and so forth
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> > >Maybe a compromise would be a cheap laptop that is just used to login
>> and
>> > >access the more powerfull hardware via SSH ?
>> >
>> > That sounds much more sensible indeed.
>> >
>>
>> To address your concerns about limited lifetime and durability,
>> I chose the ThinkPad. It's not a +2k eur Macbook, it's serviceable,
>> and I can still do stuff with it that I can't do on my current setups.
>> We have many times more than enough to cover it, and make no
>> impact on the project's finances.
>> I could agree to jamrial's suggestion too, though I don't think it
>> would be as durable or problem-free.
>>
>
> But didn't you say the ThinkPad doesn't support AVX-512?
>

Err, no? It has a 7840U, which according to https://www.amd.com/en/product/13186
has support for AVX512.
I was initially confused as it's labelled as a Ryzen 7, and I thought Ryzen 9s
were the ones based on Zen 4, but afaik both 7 and 9 are Zen 4.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Kieran Kunhya]

On Sat, 6 Jan 2024, 19:00 Lynne, <dev@lynne.ee> wrote:

> Jan 7, 2024, 00:36 by kierank@obe.tv:
>
> > On Sat, 6 Jan 2024, 16:06 Lynne, <dev@lynne.ee> wrote:
> >
> >> Jan 6, 2024, 21:15 by remi@remlab.net:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Le 6 janvier 2024 20:26:42 GMT+02:00, Michael Niedermayer <
> >> michael@niedermayer.cc> a écrit :
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > >I think some kind of remotely usable system does make sense for every
> >> volunteer
> >> > >who wants to work. It simply results in more available time for that
> >> work.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > >Even i (who doesnt travel volunteerly around) have needed and used my
> >> notebook
> >> > >for FFmpeg away from my desktop system many times.
> >> > >When ive spend some time in appartments of other familiy members,
> when
> >> i had to
> >> > >change my own apartment due to very noisy neighbors and so forth
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > >Maybe a compromise would be a cheap laptop that is just used to login
> >> and
> >> > >access the more powerfull hardware via SSH ?
> >> >
> >> > That sounds much more sensible indeed.
> >> >
> >>
> >> To address your concerns about limited lifetime and durability,
> >> I chose the ThinkPad. It's not a +2k eur Macbook, it's serviceable,
> >> and I can still do stuff with it that I can't do on my current setups.
> >> We have many times more than enough to cover it, and make no
> >> impact on the project's finances.
> >> I could agree to jamrial's suggestion too, though I don't think it
> >> would be as durable or problem-free.
> >>
> >
> > But didn't you say the ThinkPad doesn't support AVX-512?
> >
>
> Err, no? It has a 7840U, which according to
> https://www.amd.com/en/product/13186
> has support for AVX512.
> I was initially confused as it's labelled as a Ryzen 7, and I thought
> Ryzen 9s
> were the ones based on Zen 4, but afaik both 7 and 9 are Zen 4.
>

There is still no reason why you couldn't use the dedicated NUC that has
AVX512 and access it remotely with a much cheaper laptop.

Kieran

>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 7, 2024, 01:40 by kierank@obe.tv:

> On Sat, 6 Jan 2024, 19:00 Lynne, <dev@lynne.ee> wrote:
>
>> Jan 7, 2024, 00:36 by kierank@obe.tv:
>>
>> > On Sat, 6 Jan 2024, 16:06 Lynne, <dev@lynne.ee> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Jan 6, 2024, 21:15 by remi@remlab.net:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Le 6 janvier 2024 20:26:42 GMT+02:00, Michael Niedermayer <
>> >> michael@niedermayer.cc> a écrit :
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> > >I think some kind of remotely usable system does make sense for every
>> >> volunteer
>> >> > >who wants to work. It simply results in more available time for that
>> >> work.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> > >Even i (who doesnt travel volunteerly around) have needed and used my
>> >> notebook
>> >> > >for FFmpeg away from my desktop system many times.
>> >> > >When ive spend some time in appartments of other familiy members,
>> when
>> >> i had to
>> >> > >change my own apartment due to very noisy neighbors and so forth
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> > >Maybe a compromise would be a cheap laptop that is just used to login
>> >> and
>> >> > >access the more powerfull hardware via SSH ?
>> >> >
>> >> > That sounds much more sensible indeed.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> To address your concerns about limited lifetime and durability,
>> >> I chose the ThinkPad. It's not a +2k eur Macbook, it's serviceable,
>> >> and I can still do stuff with it that I can't do on my current setups.
>> >> We have many times more than enough to cover it, and make no
>> >> impact on the project's finances.
>> >> I could agree to jamrial's suggestion too, though I don't think it
>> >> would be as durable or problem-free.
>> >>
>> >
>> > But didn't you say the ThinkPad doesn't support AVX-512?
>> >
>>
>> Err, no? It has a 7840U, which according to
>> https://www.amd.com/en/product/13186
>> has support for AVX512.
>> I was initially confused as it's labelled as a Ryzen 7, and I thought
>> Ryzen 9s
>> were the ones based on Zen 4, but afaik both 7 and 9 are Zen 4.
>>
>
> There is still no reason why you couldn't use the dedicated NUC that has
> AVX512 and access it remotely with a much cheaper laptop.
>

It's more practical to work on a local machine without having to
compile everything, and setting up for accurate benchmarking is
doable as you wouldn't disturb anyone else's work by switching
the scheduler or fixing the frequency.
I also messaged you about getting access to the Ampere machine
a little over a week ago, but you didn't respond, so sysadmin latency
is high.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Kieran Kunhya]

On Sat, 6 Jan 2024, 20:55 Lynne, <dev@lynne.ee> wrote:

> Jan 7, 2024, 01:40 by kierank@obe.tv:
>
> > On Sat, 6 Jan 2024, 19:00 Lynne, <dev@lynne.ee> wrote:
> >
> >> Jan 7, 2024, 00:36 by kierank@obe.tv:
> >>
> >> > On Sat, 6 Jan 2024, 16:06 Lynne, <dev@lynne.ee> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Jan 6, 2024, 21:15 by remi@remlab.net:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Le 6 janvier 2024 20:26:42 GMT+02:00, Michael Niedermayer <
> >> >> michael@niedermayer.cc> a écrit :
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> > >I think some kind of remotely usable system does make sense for
> every
> >> >> volunteer
> >> >> > >who wants to work. It simply results in more available time for
> that
> >> >> work.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> > >Even i (who doesnt travel volunteerly around) have needed and
> used my
> >> >> notebook
> >> >> > >for FFmpeg away from my desktop system many times.
> >> >> > >When ive spend some time in appartments of other familiy members,
> >> when
> >> >> i had to
> >> >> > >change my own apartment due to very noisy neighbors and so forth
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> > >Maybe a compromise would be a cheap laptop that is just used to
> login
> >> >> and
> >> >> > >access the more powerfull hardware via SSH ?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > That sounds much more sensible indeed.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> To address your concerns about limited lifetime and durability,
> >> >> I chose the ThinkPad. It's not a +2k eur Macbook, it's serviceable,
> >> >> and I can still do stuff with it that I can't do on my current
> setups.
> >> >> We have many times more than enough to cover it, and make no
> >> >> impact on the project's finances.
> >> >> I could agree to jamrial's suggestion too, though I don't think it
> >> >> would be as durable or problem-free.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > But didn't you say the ThinkPad doesn't support AVX-512?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Err, no? It has a 7840U, which according to
> >> https://www.amd.com/en/product/13186
> >> has support for AVX512.
> >> I was initially confused as it's labelled as a Ryzen 7, and I thought
> >> Ryzen 9s
> >> were the ones based on Zen 4, but afaik both 7 and 9 are Zen 4.
> >>
> >
> > There is still no reason why you couldn't use the dedicated NUC that has
> > AVX512 and access it remotely with a much cheaper laptop.
> >
>
> It's more practical to work on a local machine without having to
> compile everything, and setting up for accurate benchmarking is
> doable as you wouldn't disturb anyone else's work by switching
> the scheduler or fixing the frequency.
> I also messaged you about getting access to the Ampere machine
> a little over a week ago, but you didn't respond, so sysadmin latency
> is high.
>

The nuc has everything setup correctly for this.

Regarding access to the ampere, there is a further discussion to be had
off-list.

Kieran

>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Michael Niedermayer]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1358 bytes --]

On Sat, Jan 06, 2024 at 01:09:58PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
[...]
> > Also, I think some developers here would disagree with the notion that
> > desktop machines are always the best option, and I think I that subjects
> > such as ergonomy, uselessness when not docked,
> 
> That's simply not a matter of subjective opinion of an hypothetical developer. 
> The point about ergonomy is generally accepted among specialists based on 
> serious studies. And by specialists I mean medical doctors and occupational 
> healthcare therapists, not FFmpeg developers. That's not "subjective" in my 
> book.

At the risk of this going off topic a bit. Laptop use is not Laptop use.

What i do with my laptop is i have it on this thing:
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B072PZLZ25
That can adjust tilt, rotate and height (and of course it can be moved around
on  the table)
put a good keyboard below it and a good mouse to its right.

Iam not sure how this is worse than a desktop in terms of ergonomy.
Also given one needs a mouse and a keyboard for a desktop too, its just
the cost of that stand.


thx

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny 
individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities. - Ayn Rand

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

Le lauantaina 6. tammikuuta 2024, 19.59.47 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
> What i do with my laptop is i have it on this thing:
> https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B072PZLZ25

> That can adjust tilt, rotate and height (and of course it can be moved
> around on  the table)
> put a good keyboard below it and a good mouse to its right.

I think that I already addressed that up-thread? A docked laptop is basically 
the same as a desktop system, but more expensive and less powerful.

I can't imagine that Lynne would use the laptop for development from her home, 
whilst she already has a gotten quite the S-class monster of a desktop 
workstation for that purpose, whose technical specifications are sure to 
outclass any contemporary laptop.

-- 
雷米‧德尼-库尔蒙
http://www.remlab.net/



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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 6, 2024, 19:22 by remi@remlab.net:

> Le lauantaina 6. tammikuuta 2024, 19.59.47 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
>
>> What i do with my laptop is i have it on this thing:
>> https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B072PZLZ25
>>
>> That can adjust tilt, rotate and height (and of course it can be moved
>> around on  the table)
>> put a good keyboard below it and a good mouse to its right.
>>
>
> I think that I already addressed that up-thread? A docked laptop is basically 
> the same as a desktop system, but more expensive and less powerful.
>
> I can't imagine that Lynne would use the laptop for development from her home, 
> whilst she already has a gotten quite the S-class monster of a desktop 
> workstation for that purpose, whose technical specifications are sure to 
> outclass any contemporary laptop.
>

I can be comfortable to lie down and work on a piece of code or read a long paper.
Or respond to mails.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Michael Niedermayer]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 367 bytes --]

Hi

On Wed, Jan 03, 2024 at 01:56:12AM +0100, Lynne wrote:
> As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and

Why/how did the laptop die ?
is it unrepearable ?

thx

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

Nations do behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives. 
-- Abba Eban

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Michael Niedermayer]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 553 bytes --]

On Sat, Jan 06, 2024 at 06:42:40PM +0100, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> Hi
> 
> On Wed, Jan 03, 2024 at 01:56:12AM +0100, Lynne wrote:
> > As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
> 
> Why/how did the laptop die ?
> is it unrepearable ?

ping

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

Concerning the gods, I have no means of knowing whether they exist or not
or of what sort they may be, because of the obscurity of the subject, and
the brevity of human life -- Protagoras

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Lynne]

Jan 10, 2024, 03:31 by michael@niedermayer.cc:

> On Sat, Jan 06, 2024 at 06:42:40PM +0100, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 03, 2024 at 01:56:12AM +0100, Lynne wrote:
>> > As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
>>
>> Why/how did the laptop die ?
>> is it unrepearable ?
>>
>
> ping
>

It was a 4th gen Thinkpad X1 Carbon. A few drops of water got in
between the caps lock before I noticed, by the time I did, it was too late.
Battery circuitry is dead so it only runs on AC, frequency controller is
dying so it runs at fixed Pentium II 350Mhz speeds, keyboard controller
sees keys pressed all the time, touchpad is dead, USB is dead.
The motherboard crammed essential components on the periphery
and non-essential replaceable components like wifi and 4g modem
right next to the CPU, so it was not great engineering.
It did live a long life for 7 years, but only the shell remains mostly usable.
I may not be able to put it back together as it was, since I lost some screws,
as I kept working on it for months.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Paul B Mahol]

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 3:56 AM Lynne <dev@lynne.ee> wrote:

> Jan 10, 2024, 03:31 by michael@niedermayer.cc:
>
> > On Sat, Jan 06, 2024 at 06:42:40PM +0100, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 03, 2024 at 01:56:12AM +0100, Lynne wrote:
> >> > As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
> >>
> >> Why/how did the laptop die ?
> >> is it unrepearable ?
> >>
> >
> > ping
> >
>
> It was a 4th gen Thinkpad X1 Carbon. A few drops of water got in
> between the caps lock before I noticed, by the time I did, it was too late.
> Battery circuitry is dead so it only runs on AC, frequency controller is
> dying so it runs at fixed Pentium II 350Mhz speeds, keyboard controller
> sees keys pressed all the time, touchpad is dead, USB is dead.
> The motherboard crammed essential components on the periphery
> and non-essential replaceable components like wifi and 4g modem
> right next to the CPU, so it was not great engineering.
> It did live a long life for 7 years, but only the shell remains mostly
> usable.
> I may not be able to put it back together as it was, since I lost some
> screws,
> as I kept working on it for months.
>

NAK, FFmpeg developers do not need hardware.


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> ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request: AVX512-capable laptop

[Michael Niedermayer]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3156 bytes --]

On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 03:56:22AM +0100, Lynne wrote:
> Jan 10, 2024, 03:31 by michael@niedermayer.cc:
> 
> > On Sat, Jan 06, 2024 at 06:42:40PM +0100, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 03, 2024 at 01:56:12AM +0100, Lynne wrote:
> >> > As some of you know, my laptop died nearly 2 years ago, and
> >>
> >> Why/how did the laptop die ?
> >> is it unrepearable ?
> >>
> >
> > ping
> >
> 
> It was a 4th gen Thinkpad X1 Carbon. A few drops of water got in
> between the caps lock before I noticed, by the time I did, it was too late.
> Battery circuitry is dead so it only runs on AC, frequency controller is
> dying so it runs at fixed Pentium II 350Mhz speeds, keyboard controller
> sees keys pressed all the time, touchpad is dead, USB is dead.
> The motherboard crammed essential components on the periphery
> and non-essential replaceable components like wifi and 4g modem
> right next to the CPU, so it was not great engineering.
> It did live a long life for 7 years, but only the shell remains mostly usable.
> I may not be able to put it back together as it was, since I lost some screws,
> as I kept working on it for months.

Sounds like corrosion, did you inspect it for signs of corrosion ?
I guess it would need a new mainboard. and maybe other parts
But it honestly doesnt sound like a few drops of water, you shure it was
a few drops only and only water ? ;)

I dumped a whole glass of water through my HP notebook once and after
drying it still worked just with some occasional artifacts on screen

Anyway iam not against buying you a new notebook from SPI-FFmpeg money
But you need to find some consensus with the community, its not my
decission its the decission of the community.
I do think though a cheap notebook would be aggreed to by the people
easier
in case you dont know, theres:
https://geizhals.eu/?cat=nb
you can select the features you want and it will show you whats available
for example with OLED and Zen 4 the cheapest is 799€
https://geizhals.eu/acer-swift-go-sfg14-42-r6vl-pure-silver-nx-kleeg-003-a2999043.html?hloc=at&hloc=de
or if you dont like acer
Theres a lenovo for 999 with oled and zen 4
https://geizhals.eu/lenovo-yoga-slim-6-14apu8-misty-grey-a3040258.html?hloc=at&hloc=de

or with IPS instead of OLED theres
https://geizhals.eu/lenovo-ideapad-pro-5-14aph8-arctic-grey-83amcto1wwat1-83amcto1wwde1-a3051616.html?hloc=at&hloc=de

again, i know neither so they may be bad choices, i have HP and acer notebooks here
all sub 1k €
also i dont know what you need exactly. Maybe a remote zen 4 is fine?
I did generally use my notebooks with FFmpeg by doing stuff remotely on a bigger box.
Even if you have a rather powerfull notebook, some high end desktop is going to build and
run tests much faster

PS: also dont forget to look at the screen size, a 17inch notebook and a 14inch differ in useability and
portability

thx

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

If you think the mosad wants you dead since a long time then you are either
wrong or dead since a long time.

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