[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement options parsing

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement options parsing

[Niklas Haas]

From: Niklas Haas <git@haasn.dev>

And use it to make the output format configurable.

I also added a "none" option to explicitly disable the behavior (in case a
previous command line argument was used to enable it). This has the added
benefit of giving the default "pretty" format the ID 1, allowing `-dumpgraph 1`
to continue working as expected.
---
 libavfilter/graphdump.c | 54 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++------
 1 file changed, 47 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)

diff --git a/libavfilter/graphdump.c b/libavfilter/graphdump.c
index 1bb59e4301..80cbda50f5 100644
--- a/libavfilter/graphdump.c
+++ b/libavfilter/graphdump.c
@@ -24,10 +24,33 @@
 #include "libavutil/channel_layout.h"
 #include "libavutil/bprint.h"
 #include "libavutil/mem.h"
+#include "libavutil/opt.h"
 #include "libavutil/pixdesc.h"
 #include "avfilter.h"
 #include "filters.h"
 
+enum {
+    FMT_NONE = 0,
+    FMT_PRETTY,
+    FMT_NB,
+};
+
+typedef struct GraphDumpOptions {
+    const AVClass *class;
+
+    int format;
+} GraphDumpOptions;
+
+#define OFFSET(x) offsetof(GraphDumpOptions, x)
+static const AVOption graph_dump_options[] = {
+    { "format",     "set the output format", OFFSET(format), AV_OPT_TYPE_INT, { .i64 = FMT_NONE }, 0, FMT_NB - 1, .unit = "format" },
+    {     "none",   "don't produce any output",         0, AV_OPT_TYPE_CONST, {.i64 = FMT_NONE},    .unit = "format" },
+    {     "pretty", "pretty printed ASCII art graph",   0, AV_OPT_TYPE_CONST, {.i64 = FMT_PRETTY},  .unit = "format" },
+    { NULL },
+};
+
+AVFILTER_DEFINE_CLASS(graph_dump);
+
 static int print_link_prop(AVBPrint *buf, AVFilterLink *link)
 {
     const char *format;
@@ -61,7 +84,7 @@ static int print_link_prop(AVBPrint *buf, AVFilterLink *link)
     return buf->len;
 }
 
-static void avfilter_graph_dump_to_buf(AVBPrint *buf, AVFilterGraph *graph)
+static void dump_pretty(AVBPrint *buf, AVFilterGraph *graph)
 {
     unsigned i, j, x, e;
 
@@ -157,13 +180,30 @@ char *avfilter_graph_dump(AVFilterGraph *graph, const char *options)
 {
     AVBPrint buf;
     char *dump = NULL;
+    int ret;
 
-    av_bprint_init(&buf, 0, AV_BPRINT_SIZE_COUNT_ONLY);
-    avfilter_graph_dump_to_buf(&buf, graph);
-    dump = av_malloc(buf.len + 1);
-    if (!dump)
+    GraphDumpOptions opts = {
+        .class = &graph_dump_class,
+    };
+
+    static const char *shorthand[] = {
+        "format", NULL,
+    };
+
+    av_opt_set_defaults(&opts);
+    ret = av_opt_set_from_string(&opts, options, shorthand, "=", ":");
+    if (ret < 0)
         return NULL;
-    av_bprint_init_for_buffer(&buf, dump, buf.len + 1);
-    avfilter_graph_dump_to_buf(&buf, graph);
+
+    av_bprint_init(&buf, 0, AV_BPRINT_SIZE_AUTOMATIC);
+    switch (opts.format) {
+    case FMT_NONE:
+        break;
+    case FMT_PRETTY:
+        dump_pretty(&buf, graph);
+        break;
+    }
+
+    av_bprint_finalize(&buf, &dump);
     return dump;
 }
-- 
2.47.0

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[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 2/4] avfilter/filters: keep track of AVFilterPad labels

[Niklas Haas]

From: Niklas Haas <git@haasn.dev>

For use in diagnostic code e.g. avfilter_graph_dump().
---
 libavfilter/avfilter.c    | 2 ++
 libavfilter/filters.h     | 6 ++++++
 libavfilter/graphparser.c | 6 ++++++
 3 files changed, 14 insertions(+)

diff --git a/libavfilter/avfilter.c b/libavfilter/avfilter.c
index e732556ffa..b434724694 100644
--- a/libavfilter/avfilter.c
+++ b/libavfilter/avfilter.c
@@ -825,11 +825,13 @@ void avfilter_free(AVFilterContext *filter)
 
     for (i = 0; i < filter->nb_inputs; i++) {
         free_link(filter->inputs[i]);
+        av_freep(&filter->input_pads[i].label);
         if (filter->input_pads[i].flags  & AVFILTERPAD_FLAG_FREE_NAME)
             av_freep(&filter->input_pads[i].name);
     }
     for (i = 0; i < filter->nb_outputs; i++) {
         free_link(filter->outputs[i]);
+        av_freep(&filter->output_pads[i].label);
         if (filter->output_pads[i].flags & AVFILTERPAD_FLAG_FREE_NAME)
             av_freep(&filter->output_pads[i].name);
     }
diff --git a/libavfilter/filters.h b/libavfilter/filters.h
index 654aed5c9e..751a125f52 100644
--- a/libavfilter/filters.h
+++ b/libavfilter/filters.h
@@ -43,6 +43,12 @@ struct AVFilterPad {
      */
     const char *name;
 
+    /**
+     * Parsed label for this filter pad in the filter graph, or NULL if
+     * anonymous or unknown.
+     */
+    const char *label;
+
     /**
      * AVFilterPad type.
      */
diff --git a/libavfilter/graphparser.c b/libavfilter/graphparser.c
index a23e26d2e3..9f8dd3190a 100644
--- a/libavfilter/graphparser.c
+++ b/libavfilter/graphparser.c
@@ -564,6 +564,12 @@ int avfilter_graph_segment_create_filters(AVFilterGraphSegment *seg, int flags)
                 }
             }
 
+            /* Set all filter pad labels to their corresponding parsed labels */
+            for (size_t i = 0; i < FFMIN(p->nb_inputs, p->filter->nb_inputs); i++)
+                p->filter->input_pads[i].label = av_strdup(p->inputs[i]->label);
+            for (size_t i = 0; i < FFMIN(p->nb_outputs, p->filter->nb_outputs); i++)
+                p->filter->output_pads[i].label = av_strdup(p->outputs[i]->label);
+
             av_freep(&p->filter_name);
             av_freep(&p->instance_name);
 
-- 
2.47.0

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[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 3/4] avfilter/graphdump: add complex format

[Niklas Haas]

From: Niklas Haas <git@haasn.dev>

As an example, the following filter graph (taken from FATE):

  sws_flags=+accurate_rnd+bitexact;
  split [main][over];
  [over] scale=88:72, pad=96:80:4:4 [overf];
  [main][overf] overlay=240:16:format=yuv422

Results in this output:

Filter graph:
  [L0] split=thread_type=0x00000000 [L1] [over];
  [over] scale=w=88:width=88:h=72:height=72:flags=+accurate_rnd+bitexact:thread_type=0x00000000 [L3];
  [L3] pad=width=96:w=96:height=80:h=80:x=4:y=4:thread_type=0x00000000 [overf];
  [main] [overf] overlay=x=240:y=16:format=2 [L6];
  buffer=width=352:video_size=352x288:height=288:pix_fmt=yuv420p:time_base=1/25:frame_rate=25/1:range=1:thread_type=0x00000000 [L0];
  [L6] buffersink=pixel_formats=:colorspaces=:colorranges=:thread_type=0x00000000;
  [L1] scale=w=iw:width=iw:h=ih:height=ih:flags=+accurate_rnd+bitexact:thread_type=0x00000000 [main];
Filter links:
  [L0: buffer -> split] yuv420p 352x288 [SAR 0:1] csp:unknown range:tv
  [L1: split -> scale] yuv420p 352x288 [SAR 0:1] csp:unknown range:tv
  [over: split -> scale] yuv420p 352x288 [SAR 0:1] csp:unknown range:tv
  [L3: scale -> pad] yuva422p 88x72 [SAR 0:1] csp:unknown range:tv
  [overf: pad -> overlay] yuva422p 96x80 [SAR 0:1] csp:unknown range:tv
  [main: scale -> overlay] yuva422p 352x288 [SAR 0:1] csp:unknown range:tv
  [L6: overlay -> buffersink] yuva422p 352x288 [SAR 0:1] csp:unknown range:tv

This format is intended to be more useful for logging, post-processing or
otherwise reusing the dumpled filter graph, since it can be directly ingested
again by `-filter_complex`.
---
 libavfilter/graphdump.c | 124 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 124 insertions(+)

diff --git a/libavfilter/graphdump.c b/libavfilter/graphdump.c
index 80cbda50f5..e81ea0c001 100644
--- a/libavfilter/graphdump.c
+++ b/libavfilter/graphdump.c
@@ -32,6 +32,7 @@
 enum {
     FMT_NONE = 0,
     FMT_PRETTY,
+    FMT_COMPLEX,
     FMT_NB,
 };
 
@@ -46,6 +47,7 @@ static const AVOption graph_dump_options[] = {
     { "format",     "set the output format", OFFSET(format), AV_OPT_TYPE_INT, { .i64 = FMT_NONE }, 0, FMT_NB - 1, .unit = "format" },
     {     "none",   "don't produce any output",         0, AV_OPT_TYPE_CONST, {.i64 = FMT_NONE},    .unit = "format" },
     {     "pretty", "pretty printed ASCII art graph",   0, AV_OPT_TYPE_CONST, {.i64 = FMT_PRETTY},  .unit = "format" },
+    {     "complex","complex filter graph",             0, AV_OPT_TYPE_CONST, {.i64 = FMT_COMPLEX}, .unit = "format" },
     { NULL },
 };
 
@@ -176,6 +178,121 @@ static void dump_pretty(AVBPrint *buf, AVFilterGraph *graph)
     }
 }
 
+/* Assign a unique ID to each link by keeping track of them in an array */
+static int get_link_id(AVFilterLink ***links, int *nb_links, AVFilterLink *link)
+{
+    int ret;
+    for (int i = 0; i < *nb_links; i++) {
+        if ((*links)[i] == link)
+            return i;
+    }
+
+    ret = av_dynarray_add_nofree(links, nb_links, link);
+    return ret ? ret : *nb_links - 1;
+}
+
+static const char *get_filter_name(const AVFilterContext *filter)
+{
+    /* Reuse the filter instance name if present */
+    return strchr(filter->name, '@') ? filter->name : filter->filter->name;
+}
+
+static void print_link_label(AVBPrint *buf, AVFilterLink *link, int id)
+{
+    if (link->srcpad->label)
+        av_bprintf(buf, "%s", link->srcpad->label);
+    else if (link->dstpad->label)
+        av_bprintf(buf, "%s", link->dstpad->label);
+    else
+        av_bprintf(buf, "L%d", id);
+}
+
+static int dump_complex(AVBPrint *buf, AVFilterGraph *graph)
+{
+    /* Keep track of seen filter links to assign a unique ID to each */
+    AVFilterLink **links = NULL;
+    int nb_links = 0;
+    int ret = AVERROR(ENOMEM);
+    char *filter_opts = NULL;
+
+    for (int i = 0; i < graph->nb_filters; i++) {
+        AVFilterContext *filter = graph->filters[i];
+        if (i == 0)
+            av_bprintf(buf, "Filter graph:\n");
+
+        ret = av_opt_serialize(filter, AV_OPT_FLAG_FILTERING_PARAM,
+                               AV_OPT_SERIALIZE_SKIP_DEFAULTS |
+                               AV_OPT_SERIALIZE_SEARCH_CHILDREN,
+                               &filter_opts, '=', ':');
+        if (ret < 0)
+            goto fail;
+
+        av_bprintf(buf, "  ");
+        for (int j = 0; j < filter->nb_inputs; j++) {
+            AVFilterLink *link = filter->inputs[j];
+            ret = get_link_id(&links, &nb_links, link);
+            if (ret < 0)
+                goto fail;
+            av_bprintf(buf, "[");
+            print_link_label(buf, link, ret);
+            av_bprintf(buf, "] ");
+        }
+
+        av_bprintf(buf, "%s", get_filter_name(filter));
+        if (filter_opts && filter_opts[0])
+            av_bprintf(buf, "=%s", filter_opts);
+        av_freep(&filter_opts);
+
+        for (int j = 0; j < filter->nb_outputs; j++) {
+            AVFilterLink *link = filter->outputs[j];
+            ret = get_link_id(&links, &nb_links, link);
+            if (ret < 0)
+                goto fail;
+            av_bprintf(buf, " [");
+            print_link_label(buf, link, ret);
+            av_bprintf(buf, "]");
+        }
+        av_bprintf(buf, ";\n");
+    }
+
+    /* Dump a summary of all seen links */
+    for (int i = 0; i < nb_links; i++) {
+        AVFilterLink *link = links[i];
+        if (i == 0)
+            av_bprintf(buf, "Filter links:\n");
+        av_bprintf(buf, "  [");
+        print_link_label(buf, link, i);
+        av_bprintf(buf, ": %s -> %s] ", get_filter_name(link->src),
+                   get_filter_name(link->dst));
+
+        switch (link->type) {
+        case AVMEDIA_TYPE_VIDEO:
+            av_bprintf(buf, "%s %dx%d [SAR %d:%d] csp:%s range:%s\n",
+                       av_get_pix_fmt_name(link->format), link->w, link->h,
+                       link->sample_aspect_ratio.num, link->sample_aspect_ratio.den,
+                       av_color_space_name(link->colorspace),
+                       av_color_range_name(link->color_range));
+            break;
+        case AVMEDIA_TYPE_AUDIO:
+            av_bprintf(buf, "%s %dHz ",
+                       av_get_sample_fmt_name(link->format), link->sample_rate);
+            av_channel_layout_describe_bprint(&link->ch_layout, buf);
+            av_bprintf(buf, "\n");
+            break;
+        default:
+            av_bprintf(buf, "unknown\n");
+            continue;
+        }
+    }
+
+    ret = 0;
+fail:
+    av_free(links);
+    av_free(filter_opts);
+    return ret;
+}
+
+
 char *avfilter_graph_dump(AVFilterGraph *graph, const char *options)
 {
     AVBPrint buf;
@@ -202,6 +319,13 @@ char *avfilter_graph_dump(AVFilterGraph *graph, const char *options)
     case FMT_PRETTY:
         dump_pretty(&buf, graph);
         break;
+    case FMT_COMPLEX:
+        ret = dump_complex(&buf, graph);
+        if (ret < 0) {
+            av_bprint_finalize(&buf, NULL);
+            return NULL;
+        }
+        break;
     }
 
     av_bprint_finalize(&buf, &dump);
-- 
2.47.0

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[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 4/4] fftools/ffmpeg_filter: add -dump_filter_graph option

[Niklas Haas]

From: Niklas Haas <git@haasn.dev>

Debugging option to dump the filter graph after insertion of auto-filters.
Named such to avoid clashing with the existing -dumpgraph option on lavfi
devices.
---
 doc/ffmpeg.texi             | 18 ++++++++++++++++++
 fftools/ffmpeg.h            |  1 +
 fftools/ffmpeg_filter.c     | 13 +++++++++++++
 fftools/ffmpeg_opt.c        |  4 ++++
 libavfilter/vf_libplacebo.c |  2 +-
 5 files changed, 37 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/doc/ffmpeg.texi b/doc/ffmpeg.texi
index da6549f043..298c736b47 100644
--- a/doc/ffmpeg.texi
+++ b/doc/ffmpeg.texi
@@ -2768,6 +2768,24 @@ filter (scale, aresample) in the graph.
 On by default, to explicitly disable it you need to specify
 @code{-noauto_conversion_filters}.
 
+@item -dump_filter_graph
+Print out the fully settled filter graph, after all automatic conversion
+and format restriction filters have been inserted. Accepts a key/value list of
+suboptions to influnce the output.
+@table @option
+@item format
+Choose the output format. Possible values are:
+
+@table @option
+@item none
+Don't print anything.
+@item pretty
+Pretty-print an ASCII art graph. This is the default.
+@item complex
+Print in a format suitable for consumption by @option{-filter_complex}.
+@end table
+@end table
+
 @item -bits_per_raw_sample[:@var{stream_specifier}] @var{value} (@emph{output,per-stream})
 Declare the number of bits per raw sample in the given output stream to be
 @var{value}. Note that this option sets the information provided to the
diff --git a/fftools/ffmpeg.h b/fftools/ffmpeg.h
index 6cc0da05a0..d6be3df539 100644
--- a/fftools/ffmpeg.h
+++ b/fftools/ffmpeg.h
@@ -715,6 +715,7 @@ extern char *filter_nbthreads;
 extern int filter_complex_nbthreads;
 extern int vstats_version;
 extern int auto_conversion_filters;
+extern char *dump_filter_graph;
 
 extern const AVIOInterruptCB int_cb;
 
diff --git a/fftools/ffmpeg_filter.c b/fftools/ffmpeg_filter.c
index 800e2a3f06..5aa871c8ad 100644
--- a/fftools/ffmpeg_filter.c
+++ b/fftools/ffmpeg_filter.c
@@ -23,6 +23,7 @@
 #include "ffmpeg.h"
 
 #include "libavfilter/avfilter.h"
+#include "libavfilter/filters.h"
 #include "libavfilter/buffersink.h"
 #include "libavfilter/buffersrc.h"
 
@@ -1986,6 +1987,18 @@ static int configure_filtergraph(FilterGraph *fg, FilterGraphThread *fgt)
     if ((ret = avfilter_graph_config(fgt->graph, NULL)) < 0)
         goto fail;
 
+    /* Print the generated filter graph after insertion of auto filters */
+    if (dump_filter_graph) {
+        char *graph = avfilter_graph_dump(fgt->graph, dump_filter_graph);
+        if (graph)
+            av_log(NULL, AV_LOG_INFO, "%s", graph);
+        else
+            av_log(NULL, AV_LOG_ERROR, "Failed dumping filtergraph!\n");
+    }
+
+    avfilter_inout_free(&inputs);
+    avfilter_inout_free(&outputs);
+
     fgp->is_meta = graph_is_meta(fgt->graph);
 
     /* limit the lists of allowed formats to the ones selected, to
diff --git a/fftools/ffmpeg_opt.c b/fftools/ffmpeg_opt.c
index 3c0c682594..aa8a6508ab 100644
--- a/fftools/ffmpeg_opt.c
+++ b/fftools/ffmpeg_opt.c
@@ -76,6 +76,7 @@ char *filter_nbthreads;
 int filter_complex_nbthreads = 0;
 int vstats_version = 2;
 int auto_conversion_filters = 1;
+char *dump_filter_graph;
 int64_t stats_period = 500000;
 
 
@@ -1733,6 +1734,9 @@ const OptionDef options[] = {
     { "auto_conversion_filters", OPT_TYPE_BOOL, OPT_EXPERT,
         { &auto_conversion_filters },
         "enable automatic conversion filters globally" },
+    { "dump_filter_graph", OPT_TYPE_STRING, OPT_EXPERT,
+        { &dump_filter_graph },
+        "dump filter graph after insertion of auto-filters" },
     { "stats",               OPT_TYPE_BOOL, 0,
         { &print_stats },
         "print progress report during encoding", },
diff --git a/libavfilter/vf_libplacebo.c b/libavfilter/vf_libplacebo.c
index e1c6629f6d..20f5c2cf75 100644
--- a/libavfilter/vf_libplacebo.c
+++ b/libavfilter/vf_libplacebo.c
@@ -1288,7 +1288,7 @@ static const AVOption libplacebo_options[] = {
     { "force_divisible_by", "enforce that the output resolution is divisible by a defined integer when force_original_aspect_ratio is used", OFFSET(force_divisible_by), AV_OPT_TYPE_INT, { .i64 = 1 }, 1, 256, STATIC },
     { "normalize_sar", "force SAR normalization to 1:1 by adjusting pos_x/y/w/h", OFFSET(normalize_sar), AV_OPT_TYPE_BOOL, {.i64 = 0}, 0, 1, STATIC },
     { "pad_crop_ratio", "ratio between padding and cropping when normalizing SAR (0=pad, 1=crop)", OFFSET(pad_crop_ratio), AV_OPT_TYPE_FLOAT, {.dbl=0.0}, 0.0, 1.0, DYNAMIC },
-    { "fillcolor", "Background fill color", OFFSET(fillcolor), AV_OPT_TYPE_STRING, {.str = "black"}, .flags = DYNAMIC },
+    { "fillcolor", "Background fill color", OFFSET(fillcolor), AV_OPT_TYPE_STRING, {.str = "black@0.0"}, .flags = DYNAMIC },
     { "corner_rounding", "Corner rounding radius", OFFSET(corner_rounding), AV_OPT_TYPE_FLOAT, {.dbl = 0.0}, 0.0, 1.0, .flags = DYNAMIC },
     { "extra_opts", "Pass extra libplacebo-specific options using a :-separated list of key=value pairs", OFFSET(extra_opts), AV_OPT_TYPE_DICT, .flags = DYNAMIC },
 
-- 
2.47.0

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement options parsing

[Niklas Haas]

On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 13:46:00 +0100 Niklas Haas <ffmpeg@haasn.xyz> wrote:
> From: Niklas Haas <git@haasn.dev>
>
> And use it to make the output format configurable.
>
> I also added a "none" option to explicitly disable the behavior (in case a
> previous command line argument was used to enable it). This has the added
> benefit of giving the default "pretty" format the ID 1, allowing `-dumpgraph 1`
> to continue working as expected.

Should address all of the issues brought up in the previous review.

One difference in this implementation is that we now print buffer/buffersink
filters as well, because I couldn't justify omitting them from an implementation
that has nothing to do with ffmpeg.c.

This does unfortunately mean that the output can't *directly* be reused as an
input to -filter_complex without first removing the buffer* entries. In theory
we could add an option to explicitly drop them, but I'm not sold on the idea.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 4/4] fftools/ffmpeg_filter: add -dump_filter_graph option

[epirat07]

On 18 Feb 2025, at 13:46, Niklas Haas wrote:

> From: Niklas Haas <git@haasn.dev>
>
> Debugging option to dump the filter graph after insertion of auto-filters.
> Named such to avoid clashing with the existing -dumpgraph option on lavfi
> devices.
> ---
>  doc/ffmpeg.texi             | 18 ++++++++++++++++++
>  fftools/ffmpeg.h            |  1 +
>  fftools/ffmpeg_filter.c     | 13 +++++++++++++
>  fftools/ffmpeg_opt.c        |  4 ++++
>  libavfilter/vf_libplacebo.c |  2 +-
>  5 files changed, 37 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
>
> diff --git a/doc/ffmpeg.texi b/doc/ffmpeg.texi
> index da6549f043..298c736b47 100644
> --- a/doc/ffmpeg.texi
> +++ b/doc/ffmpeg.texi
> @@ -2768,6 +2768,24 @@ filter (scale, aresample) in the graph.
>  On by default, to explicitly disable it you need to specify
>  @code{-noauto_conversion_filters}.
>
> +@item -dump_filter_graph
> +Print out the fully settled filter graph, after all automatic conversion
> +and format restriction filters have been inserted. Accepts a key/value list of
> +suboptions to influnce the output.
> +@table @option
> +@item format
> +Choose the output format. Possible values are:
> +
> +@table @option
> +@item none
> +Don't print anything.
> +@item pretty
> +Pretty-print an ASCII art graph. This is the default.
> +@item complex
> +Print in a format suitable for consumption by @option{-filter_complex}.
> +@end table
> +@end table
> +
>  @item -bits_per_raw_sample[:@var{stream_specifier}] @var{value} (@emph{output,per-stream})
>  Declare the number of bits per raw sample in the given output stream to be
>  @var{value}. Note that this option sets the information provided to the
> diff --git a/fftools/ffmpeg.h b/fftools/ffmpeg.h
> index 6cc0da05a0..d6be3df539 100644
> --- a/fftools/ffmpeg.h
> +++ b/fftools/ffmpeg.h
> @@ -715,6 +715,7 @@ extern char *filter_nbthreads;
>  extern int filter_complex_nbthreads;
>  extern int vstats_version;
>  extern int auto_conversion_filters;
> +extern char *dump_filter_graph;
>
>  extern const AVIOInterruptCB int_cb;
>
> diff --git a/fftools/ffmpeg_filter.c b/fftools/ffmpeg_filter.c
> index 800e2a3f06..5aa871c8ad 100644
> --- a/fftools/ffmpeg_filter.c
> +++ b/fftools/ffmpeg_filter.c
> @@ -23,6 +23,7 @@
>  #include "ffmpeg.h"
>
>  #include "libavfilter/avfilter.h"
> +#include "libavfilter/filters.h"
>  #include "libavfilter/buffersink.h"
>  #include "libavfilter/buffersrc.h"
>
> @@ -1986,6 +1987,18 @@ static int configure_filtergraph(FilterGraph *fg, FilterGraphThread *fgt)
>      if ((ret = avfilter_graph_config(fgt->graph, NULL)) < 0)
>          goto fail;
>
> +    /* Print the generated filter graph after insertion of auto filters */
> +    if (dump_filter_graph) {
> +        char *graph = avfilter_graph_dump(fgt->graph, dump_filter_graph);
> +        if (graph)
> +            av_log(NULL, AV_LOG_INFO, "%s", graph);
> +        else
> +            av_log(NULL, AV_LOG_ERROR, "Failed dumping filtergraph!\n");
> +    }
> +
> +    avfilter_inout_free(&inputs);
> +    avfilter_inout_free(&outputs);
> +
>      fgp->is_meta = graph_is_meta(fgt->graph);
>
>      /* limit the lists of allowed formats to the ones selected, to
> diff --git a/fftools/ffmpeg_opt.c b/fftools/ffmpeg_opt.c
> index 3c0c682594..aa8a6508ab 100644
> --- a/fftools/ffmpeg_opt.c
> +++ b/fftools/ffmpeg_opt.c
> @@ -76,6 +76,7 @@ char *filter_nbthreads;
>  int filter_complex_nbthreads = 0;
>  int vstats_version = 2;
>  int auto_conversion_filters = 1;
> +char *dump_filter_graph;
>  int64_t stats_period = 500000;
>
>
> @@ -1733,6 +1734,9 @@ const OptionDef options[] = {
>      { "auto_conversion_filters", OPT_TYPE_BOOL, OPT_EXPERT,
>          { &auto_conversion_filters },
>          "enable automatic conversion filters globally" },
> +    { "dump_filter_graph", OPT_TYPE_STRING, OPT_EXPERT,
> +        { &dump_filter_graph },
> +        "dump filter graph after insertion of auto-filters" },
>      { "stats",               OPT_TYPE_BOOL, 0,
>          { &print_stats },
>          "print progress report during encoding", },
> diff --git a/libavfilter/vf_libplacebo.c b/libavfilter/vf_libplacebo.c
> index e1c6629f6d..20f5c2cf75 100644
> --- a/libavfilter/vf_libplacebo.c
> +++ b/libavfilter/vf_libplacebo.c
> @@ -1288,7 +1288,7 @@ static const AVOption libplacebo_options[] = {
>      { "force_divisible_by", "enforce that the output resolution is divisible by a defined integer when force_original_aspect_ratio is used", OFFSET(force_divisible_by), AV_OPT_TYPE_INT, { .i64 = 1 }, 1, 256, STATIC },
>      { "normalize_sar", "force SAR normalization to 1:1 by adjusting pos_x/y/w/h", OFFSET(normalize_sar), AV_OPT_TYPE_BOOL, {.i64 = 0}, 0, 1, STATIC },
>      { "pad_crop_ratio", "ratio between padding and cropping when normalizing SAR (0=pad, 1=crop)", OFFSET(pad_crop_ratio), AV_OPT_TYPE_FLOAT, {.dbl=0.0}, 0.0, 1.0, DYNAMIC },
> -    { "fillcolor", "Background fill color", OFFSET(fillcolor), AV_OPT_TYPE_STRING, {.str = "black"}, .flags = DYNAMIC },
> +    { "fillcolor", "Background fill color", OFFSET(fillcolor), AV_OPT_TYPE_STRING, {.str = "black@0.0"}, .flags = DYNAMIC },

Seems this is a leftover from your other patch that accidentally got in here.

>      { "corner_rounding", "Corner rounding radius", OFFSET(corner_rounding), AV_OPT_TYPE_FLOAT, {.dbl = 0.0}, 0.0, 1.0, .flags = DYNAMIC },
>      { "extra_opts", "Pass extra libplacebo-specific options using a :-separated list of key=value pairs", OFFSET(extra_opts), AV_OPT_TYPE_DICT, .flags = DYNAMIC },
>
> -- 
> 2.47.0
>
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> ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
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> ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 4/4] fftools/ffmpeg_filter: add -dump_filter_graph option

[Niklas Haas]

On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 17:43:35 +0100 epirat07@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> On 18 Feb 2025, at 13:46, Niklas Haas wrote:
>
> > From: Niklas Haas <git@haasn.dev>
> >
> > Debugging option to dump the filter graph after insertion of auto-filters.
> > Named such to avoid clashing with the existing -dumpgraph option on lavfi
> > devices.
> > ---
> >  doc/ffmpeg.texi             | 18 ++++++++++++++++++
> >  fftools/ffmpeg.h            |  1 +
> >  fftools/ffmpeg_filter.c     | 13 +++++++++++++
> >  fftools/ffmpeg_opt.c        |  4 ++++
> >  libavfilter/vf_libplacebo.c |  2 +-
> >  5 files changed, 37 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
> >
> > diff --git a/doc/ffmpeg.texi b/doc/ffmpeg.texi
> > index da6549f043..298c736b47 100644
> > --- a/doc/ffmpeg.texi
> > +++ b/doc/ffmpeg.texi
> > @@ -2768,6 +2768,24 @@ filter (scale, aresample) in the graph.
> >  On by default, to explicitly disable it you need to specify
> >  @code{-noauto_conversion_filters}.
> >
> > +@item -dump_filter_graph
> > +Print out the fully settled filter graph, after all automatic conversion
> > +and format restriction filters have been inserted. Accepts a key/value list of
> > +suboptions to influnce the output.
> > +@table @option
> > +@item format
> > +Choose the output format. Possible values are:
> > +
> > +@table @option
> > +@item none
> > +Don't print anything.
> > +@item pretty
> > +Pretty-print an ASCII art graph. This is the default.
> > +@item complex
> > +Print in a format suitable for consumption by @option{-filter_complex}.
> > +@end table
> > +@end table
> > +
> >  @item -bits_per_raw_sample[:@var{stream_specifier}] @var{value} (@emph{output,per-stream})
> >  Declare the number of bits per raw sample in the given output stream to be
> >  @var{value}. Note that this option sets the information provided to the
> > diff --git a/fftools/ffmpeg.h b/fftools/ffmpeg.h
> > index 6cc0da05a0..d6be3df539 100644
> > --- a/fftools/ffmpeg.h
> > +++ b/fftools/ffmpeg.h
> > @@ -715,6 +715,7 @@ extern char *filter_nbthreads;
> >  extern int filter_complex_nbthreads;
> >  extern int vstats_version;
> >  extern int auto_conversion_filters;
> > +extern char *dump_filter_graph;
> >
> >  extern const AVIOInterruptCB int_cb;
> >
> > diff --git a/fftools/ffmpeg_filter.c b/fftools/ffmpeg_filter.c
> > index 800e2a3f06..5aa871c8ad 100644
> > --- a/fftools/ffmpeg_filter.c
> > +++ b/fftools/ffmpeg_filter.c
> > @@ -23,6 +23,7 @@
> >  #include "ffmpeg.h"
> >
> >  #include "libavfilter/avfilter.h"
> > +#include "libavfilter/filters.h"
> >  #include "libavfilter/buffersink.h"
> >  #include "libavfilter/buffersrc.h"
> >
> > @@ -1986,6 +1987,18 @@ static int configure_filtergraph(FilterGraph *fg, FilterGraphThread *fgt)
> >      if ((ret = avfilter_graph_config(fgt->graph, NULL)) < 0)
> >          goto fail;
> >
> > +    /* Print the generated filter graph after insertion of auto filters */
> > +    if (dump_filter_graph) {
> > +        char *graph = avfilter_graph_dump(fgt->graph, dump_filter_graph);
> > +        if (graph)
> > +            av_log(NULL, AV_LOG_INFO, "%s", graph);
> > +        else
> > +            av_log(NULL, AV_LOG_ERROR, "Failed dumping filtergraph!\n");
> > +    }
> > +
> > +    avfilter_inout_free(&inputs);
> > +    avfilter_inout_free(&outputs);
> > +
> >      fgp->is_meta = graph_is_meta(fgt->graph);
> >
> >      /* limit the lists of allowed formats to the ones selected, to
> > diff --git a/fftools/ffmpeg_opt.c b/fftools/ffmpeg_opt.c
> > index 3c0c682594..aa8a6508ab 100644
> > --- a/fftools/ffmpeg_opt.c
> > +++ b/fftools/ffmpeg_opt.c
> > @@ -76,6 +76,7 @@ char *filter_nbthreads;
> >  int filter_complex_nbthreads = 0;
> >  int vstats_version = 2;
> >  int auto_conversion_filters = 1;
> > +char *dump_filter_graph;
> >  int64_t stats_period = 500000;
> >
> >
> > @@ -1733,6 +1734,9 @@ const OptionDef options[] = {
> >      { "auto_conversion_filters", OPT_TYPE_BOOL, OPT_EXPERT,
> >          { &auto_conversion_filters },
> >          "enable automatic conversion filters globally" },
> > +    { "dump_filter_graph", OPT_TYPE_STRING, OPT_EXPERT,
> > +        { &dump_filter_graph },
> > +        "dump filter graph after insertion of auto-filters" },
> >      { "stats",               OPT_TYPE_BOOL, 0,
> >          { &print_stats },
> >          "print progress report during encoding", },
> > diff --git a/libavfilter/vf_libplacebo.c b/libavfilter/vf_libplacebo.c
> > index e1c6629f6d..20f5c2cf75 100644
> > --- a/libavfilter/vf_libplacebo.c
> > +++ b/libavfilter/vf_libplacebo.c
> > @@ -1288,7 +1288,7 @@ static const AVOption libplacebo_options[] = {
> >      { "force_divisible_by", "enforce that the output resolution is divisible by a defined integer when force_original_aspect_ratio is used", OFFSET(force_divisible_by), AV_OPT_TYPE_INT, { .i64 = 1 }, 1, 256, STATIC },
> >      { "normalize_sar", "force SAR normalization to 1:1 by adjusting pos_x/y/w/h", OFFSET(normalize_sar), AV_OPT_TYPE_BOOL, {.i64 = 0}, 0, 1, STATIC },
> >      { "pad_crop_ratio", "ratio between padding and cropping when normalizing SAR (0=pad, 1=crop)", OFFSET(pad_crop_ratio), AV_OPT_TYPE_FLOAT, {.dbl=0.0}, 0.0, 1.0, DYNAMIC },
> > -    { "fillcolor", "Background fill color", OFFSET(fillcolor), AV_OPT_TYPE_STRING, {.str = "black"}, .flags = DYNAMIC },
> > +    { "fillcolor", "Background fill color", OFFSET(fillcolor), AV_OPT_TYPE_STRING, {.str = "black@0.0"}, .flags = DYNAMIC },
>
> Seems this is a leftover from your other patch that accidentally got in here.

Indeed. Fixed locally.

>
> >      { "corner_rounding", "Corner rounding radius", OFFSET(corner_rounding), AV_OPT_TYPE_FLOAT, {.dbl = 0.0}, 0.0, 1.0, .flags = DYNAMIC },
> >      { "extra_opts", "Pass extra libplacebo-specific options using a :-separated list of key=value pairs", OFFSET(extra_opts), AV_OPT_TYPE_DICT, .flags = DYNAMIC },
> >
> > --
> > 2.47.0
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ffmpeg-devel mailing list
> > ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> > https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
> >
> > To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email
> > ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
> _______________________________________________
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>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement options parsing

[Niklas Haas]

On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 13:46:00 +0100 Niklas Haas <ffmpeg@haasn.xyz> wrote:
> From: Niklas Haas <git@haasn.dev>
>
> And use it to make the output format configurable.
>
> I also added a "none" option to explicitly disable the behavior (in case a
> previous command line argument was used to enable it). This has the added
> benefit of giving the default "pretty" format the ID 1, allowing `-dumpgraph 1`
> to continue working as expected.

Any further comments about this series? If not, I intend to merge after the
weekend is over.

I decided to focus on this approach instead of the one proposed by Soft Works
in the other thread because I think it is overall cleaner and less invasive.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement options parsing

[Soft Works]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ffmpeg-devel <ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org> On Behalf Of
> Niklas Haas
> Sent: Donnerstag, 27. Februar 2025 18:53
> To: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> Cc: Niklas Haas <git@haasn.dev>
> Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement
> options parsing
> 
> On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 13:46:00 +0100 Niklas Haas <ffmpeg@haasn.xyz>
> wrote:
> > From: Niklas Haas <git@haasn.dev>
> >
> > And use it to make the output format configurable.
> >
> > I also added a "none" option to explicitly disable the behavior (in
> > case a previous command line argument was used to enable it). This has
> > the added benefit of giving the default "pretty" format the ID 1,
> > allowing `-dumpgraph 1` to continue working as expected.
> 
> Any further comments about this series? If not, I intend to merge after the
> weekend is over.
> 
> I decided to focus on this approach instead of the one proposed by Soft Works
> in the other thread because I think it is overall cleaner and less invasive.

Is that so...?


Hi Niklas,

I hadn't looked at yours after you had said:

> That seems amazing and exactly what I need.
> >
> > I can resubmit it, it's the most comprehensive implementation in this regard.
> 
> Yes, please resubmit it. I will review it.

Now I looked at it and I have some notes and questions:


1. Import of libavfilter/filters.h in fftools

I had this as well in my v1, but even though it's working fine, I'm just citing Andreas:

> That's an internal header which must not be used by fftools.


2. Clean and non-invasive?

I'd like to note that my v1 was fully self-contained in fftools without making any change to avfilter. The latest version adds 10 lines of code (one new public function) to avfilter and doesn't touch this lib otherwise - everything is isolated in fftools. 
(It's just clumsy and ugly due to the writers duplication but I'm working on that as you might have seen).


3. Your adding Fields to AVFilterPad

...for the sole purpose of the graphdump feature. Is that really more clean and less invasive than adding a simple function (avfilter_link_get_hw_frames_ctx()) to the public API of libavfilter?


4. FilterPad Labels (#2)

What's the purpose of those labels? The code mentions "tracking", but it's not clear to me why this would require an extra string label.
Each filter already has a unique ID assigned. Each filter also has [0...n] inputs and outputs. This means that you can build an identifier like 

<filter-id>_<in/out>_<pad index>


5. ffmpeg_filter.c

    avfilter_inout_free(&inputs);
    avfilter_inout_free(&outputs);

Why are you adding this?


6. Overview

Before I get to the last question, here's a comparison. I don't want to be unfair, so let me know when something is missing..

+------------------------------------------------+-----------+-------+
|                                                | softworkz | haasn |
+------------------------------------------------+-----------+-------+
| Prints all available filtegraph information    |     X     |       |
+------------------------------------------------+-----------+-------+
| Prints hw frames context information           |     X     |       |
| (the most valuable info for some)              |           |       |
+------------------------------------------------+-----------+-------+
| Prints each graph just once                    |     X     |       |
+------------------------------------------------+-----------+-------+
| Acquires the graph data in the right moment    |     X     |       |
| (right after parsing, many details are missing |           |       |
| until the first frames have passed through)    |           |       |
+------------------------------------------------+-----------+-------+
| Prints both, simple and complex graphs         |     X     |       |
+------------------------------------------------+-----------+-------+
| Prints all graphs at once (single document)    |     X     |       |
+------------------------------------------------+-----------+-------+
| Can output to file                             |     X     |       |
+------------------------------------------------+-----------+-------+
| Prints to stdout, not via av_log()             |     X     |       |
+------------------------------------------------+-----------+-------+
| Supports output formatting in standardized     |     X     |       |
| and machine-readable formats                   |           |       |
| (soon all ffprobe formats + YAML)              |           |       |
+------------------------------------------------+-----------+-------+
| Mature and proven in production for 7 years    |     X     |       |
+------------------------------------------------+-----------+-------+
| Doesn't need internal changes to avfilter      |     X     |       |
+------------------------------------------------+-----------+-------+
| Can print ASCII graphics                       |           |   X   |
+------------------------------------------------+-----------+-------+

So, the last question is - which one do you think should be merged?


Best wishes,
sw


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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement options parsing

[Nicolas George]

Niklas Haas (HE12025-02-27):
> Any further comments about this series? If not, I intend to merge after the
> weekend is over.

You have a stray change on libplacebo in patch 4. Apart from that, I
have not looked that closely at the code — and am not motivated to do so
under the rule of fake democracy — but I see nothing obviously wrong.

> I decided to focus on this approach instead of the one proposed by Soft Works
> in the other thread because I think it is overall cleaner and less invasive.

I agree.

Using standard formats would be nice, but that requires a lot more
ground work to do properly.

Regards,

-- 
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement options parsing

[James Almer]

[-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 452 bytes --]

On 2/28/2025 5:59 AM, Nicolas George wrote:
> Niklas Haas (HE12025-02-27):
>> Any further comments about this series? If not, I intend to merge after the
>> weekend is over.
> You have a stray change on libplacebo in patch 4. Apart from that, I
> have not looked that closely at the code — and am not motivated to do so
> under the rule of fake democracy

Can you elaborate? Your statement can be interpreted in two very 
different ways.


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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement options parsing

[Nicolas George]

James Almer (HE12025-02-28):
> Can you elaborate? Your statement can be interpreted in two very different
> ways.

I am not contributing boring but useful things to the project as long as
people who have contributed very little themselves are allowed to
prevent me from working on fun things too.

You should stop enabling them.

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement options parsing

[James Almer]

[-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 561 bytes --]

On 2/28/2025 11:13 AM, Nicolas George wrote:
> James Almer (HE12025-02-28):
>> Can you elaborate? Your statement can be interpreted in two very different
>> ways.
> 
> I am not contributing boring but useful things to the project as long as
> people who have contributed very little themselves are allowed to
> prevent me from working on fun things too.
> 
> You should stop enabling them.
Who among those still around after last Christmas (and in the TC, or 
ultimately the GA, both of which would have a last word) is against your 
fun things?


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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement options parsing

[Nicolas George]

James Almer (HE12025-02-28):
> Who among those still around after last Christmas (and in the TC, or
> ultimately the GA, both of which would have a last word) is against your fun
> things?

I could give you names, but you know them as well as me. The issue is
that they have that authority in the first place, whether they make use
of it or not.

But I make a note that you just gave me your approval to ignore the
worthless objections of naysayers.

-- 
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement options parsing

[James Almer]

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On 2/28/2025 11:38 AM, Nicolas George wrote:
> James Almer (HE12025-02-28):
>> Who among those still around after last Christmas (and in the TC, or
>> ultimately the GA, both of which would have a last word) is against your fun
>> things?
> 
> I could give you names, but you know them as well as me. The issue is
> that they have that authority in the first place, whether they make use
> of it or not.

 From the two people i remember that were strongly against AVWriter, one 
was a huge contributor, and left. So he certainly doesn't fit your 
description.

> 
> But I make a note that you just gave me your approval to ignore the
> worthless objections of naysayers.

No, i didn't. And you're not winning any favors from anyone by calling 
criticism and objections "worthless". It makes you look really bad, and 
displeasing to work with.


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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement options parsing

[Nicolas George]

James Almer (HE12025-02-28):
> From the two people i remember

You are forgetting some.

>				  that were strongly against AVWriter, one was
> a huge contributor, and left. So he certainly doesn't fit your description.

> No, i didn't.

Too late.

>		And you're not winning any favors from anyone by calling
> criticism and objections "worthless". It makes you look really bad, and
> displeasing to work with.

I am not trying to win any kind of favor. This project is dead unless
Michael steps up and cleans house by getting rid of the fake democracy.
I am just more lucid than you.

Note: you started this subthread by asking for clarifications on an
incidental remark in my mail; feel free to end it whenever you like.

-- 
  Nicolas George
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement options parsing

[James Almer]

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On 2/28/2025 11:50 AM, Nicolas George wrote:
> James Almer (HE12025-02-28):
>>  From the two people i remember
> 
> You are forgetting some.
> 
>> 				  that were strongly against AVWriter, one was
>> a huge contributor, and left. So he certainly doesn't fit your description.
> 
>> No, i didn't.
> 
> Too late.

You're the last person i expected to say something so childish...

> 
>> 		And you're not winning any favors from anyone by calling
>> criticism and objections "worthless". It makes you look really bad, and
>> displeasing to work with.
> 
> I am not trying to win any kind of favor. This project is dead unless
> Michael steps up and cleans house by getting rid of the fake democracy.

Ok, you finally answered my question. And it's disappointing to know you 
consider the currently most active developers (several dozens of them) 
voting for the direction of the project to be "fake".
The handful of people you dislike are nowhere near as influential as you 
think.

> I am just more lucid than you.

I have never seen someone this condescending before. It's seriously 
impossible to work with you if every other remark you make comes with an 
aggression.

> 
> Note: you started this subthread by asking for clarifications on an
> incidental remark in my mail; feel free to end it whenever you like.
It wasn't incidental, it was purposely incendiary and had to be 
highlighted, because it needs to stop. If you want to review patches, 
focus on the code and drop the snark.


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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement options parsing

[Nicolas George]

James Almer (HE12025-02-28):
> You're the last person i expected to say something so childish...

Ad-hominem.

> Ok, you finally answered my question. And it's disappointing to know you
> consider the currently most active developers (several dozens of them)
> voting for the direction of the project to be "fake".

I have already explained to you that choosing an arbitrary limit and
calling them “the most active” with a definite article is nothing but a
lie.

> I have never seen someone this condescending before. It's seriously
> impossible to work with you if every other remark you make comes with an
> aggression.

Ad-hominem.

-- 
  Nicolas George
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2 1/4] avfilter/graphdump: implement options parsing

[Vittorio Giovara]

On Fri, Feb 28, 2025 at 4:16 PM Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> wrote:

> James Almer (HE12025-02-28):
> > You're the last person i expected to say something so childish...
>
> Ad-hominem.
>
> > Ok, you finally answered my question. And it's disappointing to know you
> > consider the currently most active developers (several dozens of them)
> > voting for the direction of the project to be "fake".
>
> I have already explained to you that choosing an arbitrary limit and
> calling them “the most active” with a definite article is nothing but a
> lie.
>
> > I have never seen someone this condescending before. It's seriously
> > impossible to work with you if every other remark you make comes with an
> > aggression.
>
> Ad-hominem.


Nicolas, sorry for going off topic, and but may I ask why are you doing
this to yourself?

It's clear you disagree with the direction the project has taken, you make
constant unpleasant remarks that make people not want to collaborate with
you, and your communication style is, at best, toxic, which prevents any
actual useful input you may have to reach its audience.

This is none of my business, but why are you still in this community,
tormenting yourself and everybody else in the process?
-- 
Vittorio
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