From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (ffbox0-bg.ffmpeg.org [79.124.17.100]) by master.gitmailbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 617BB43226 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2022 17:44:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.1.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4607968B7D1; Mon, 25 Jul 2022 20:44:28 +0300 (EEST) Received: from nef.ens.fr (nef2.ens.fr [129.199.96.40]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 593EA68B6C3 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2022 20:44:22 +0300 (EEST) X-ENS-nef-client: 129.199.129.80 ( name = phare.normalesup.org ) Received: from phare.normalesup.org (phare.normalesup.org [129.199.129.80]) by nef.ens.fr (8.14.4/1.01.28121999) with ESMTP id 26PHiLbM019759 for ; Mon, 25 Jul 2022 19:44:21 +0200 Received: by phare.normalesup.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 61D5CEB5BB; Mon, 25 Jul 2022 19:44:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2022 19:44:21 +0200 From: Nicolas George To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Message-ID: References: <20220703170714.GF396728@pb2> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (nef.ens.fr [129.199.96.32]); Mon, 25 Jul 2022 19:44:21 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v5 00/25] Subtitle Filtering 2022 X-BeenThere: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: FFmpeg development discussions and patches List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7436021523508005818==" Errors-To: ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org Sender: "ffmpeg-devel" Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Post: --===============7436021523508005818== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="egIzQse4RPU9l/BF" Content-Disposition: inline --egIzQse4RPU9l/BF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ronald S. Bultje (12022-07-25): > We still do this, but currently outside FFmpeg (dav1d). So sadly, it's a > bit more out of the sphere of this mailinglist. So we take risks, and if > AV2-9 comes around, we might again. But we still consider ourselves part = of > the FFmpeg community, and I still try to review ffvp9 patches when they > come up every once in a while. Don't lose hope, just find the positive > things and work on them. Ignore the rest. I know I did. I'm having fun > again. >=20 > I don't know if I should offer advice, but my $.02: maybe adding tests (I > don't mean ffmpeg invocations; some people would call this desired > outcomes) might help here. You probably remember how Michael tested patch= es > pre-FATE: for a particular patch, he'd send an FFmpeg commandline that > either A) gives (undesirable) different output before vs. after patch, or > B) should give some correct/desired output after the patch but (still) > doesn't (and this second would be what I'm inviting you to do). Tests don= 't > have to be scripted, they can simply be a list of features or behaviors > desired in the new design. It's true that perfection is the enemy of > progress, but I think you're right that we should try to strive for furth= er > improvement if it is within reach, especially for base design or things > with API implications. (FFmpeg's API is a testament to poor design in some > places.) You're likely better at making a comprehensive list than anyone > else. Making the list public/explicit means other people can help > accomplish the full list of features. Thank you for these kind and encouraging words. The fact that the new developments happen in separate project kinds of confirms my impression that the project has become afraid of taking risks. It makes me think of these artists who found a rich patron and, dazzled by the money and luxury, become afraid of offending them and have their art lose its edge. FFmpeg is so eager to please our corporate users, to look =E2=80=9Cserious=E2=80=9D, to look =E2=80=9Cprofessional=E2=80=9D that= sometimes it almost feels like grovelling, and it stifles novelty. Another symptom of this I see is that Michael spends most of his time managing releases and fuzzing and fixing trivial bugs, tasks that are way below his skills and talent, instead of writing new code. Or maybe I am just wrong and that is what he likes to do most. As for me=E2=80=A6 I am not good at shaving cycles from inner loops, which = is the heart of FFmpeg's superiority, I cannot contribute to it. What I think I can contribute (and thank you for suggesting I am not wrong) is in areas of API and architecture. Unfortunately, while support for a new codec or optimization on an existing one will receive no objection on principle, work on API or architecture affect everybody and therefore is subject to much more discussion, possibly to the point of deadly bikeshedding or outright rejection. That makes it hard to invest time in it without some kind of a-priori assurance. Unfortunately my attempts to spark discussions have been met with indifference: https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2020-December/274167.html https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2020-December/thread.html#274167 (I realize I could probably work on internal error messages. As for event loop, the other one that has received positive feedback, I was trying to find a more efficient way out of a small quandary, I should probably go back to it.) Or even worse: https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2021-December/290226.html https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2021-December/thread.html#290226 (A good string API is a pre-requisite for several other projects.) What I think this project need is a leader, or a leading committee: somebody who can decide beforehand if a change in API or architecture is worth it, and therefore worth the time of the developer, with a decision that is binding to the project: when the code is written, other developers may discuss technical details but not reject the change itself. Maybe the technical committee could endorse this role, even though it was not exactly why it was elected. Thanks, --=20 Nicolas George --egIzQse4RPU9l/BF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE6ooRQGBoNzw0KnwPcZVLI8pNxgwFAmLe1nMACgkQcZVLI8pN xgxKnw/+P3ScIfQLrWyDQkiu/w3Yj7Vw5n2rTxM9eUsLBCqItgSIoQ+FEDxMW0g/ DlQEsp7c3VkVaBHbnvLMcgTcr2wqB87kzP9xDOwZKh73VryOhQaMtIIZy7QcihpC lQyDc+OovAMXYCskpc4+D0ibPLiSczGkGUs1604YflRtrS+1589LtRqFR3mwmAM9 Uf0BrEnMCHkP1PCM7QPoz7mCECA30Cywc3cy5MD/+br3l5sygXTeCqblxPfecXgw CHbza7BPk0QIayIKsi+s6mTGI2MT3TQ1VB5k2IKl2rF8MXGVYEEJ2I4JR3w0UX/d aCOhX0FICf+amGrk4tf82B3GzGtQw3XqCj5n2nkhDZ0ECr3DeLklhqYJuFZbS/m7 Ppa2wHbGCateZ/tt4K1hVFqWyM4hzyp9fwIpxFiITg+TBs7rUeHPisw4iwDPPPcp +Drat3rS2JsCaTsc3vGpq80ioVLHt342Hx4/RMoCgEyDx5ZGakjm++aCDKQsTAHk Yeq0EI+2Bbh+7S5AHEFcZzZPnG/tVzQauBvzfrndW3CSeuAYJ7SBm8q7OMooEOAq vX5cp6xBgBaN05F0+yF8ZsS+QbhzJwxV6xK3VpkOrTeIfqNShpiwawz/Oc5dpbtP orKW/Ls7c8i9CnqnLOLoOa3h9UZAWdFADu/VloJNTsAwlBCXH/s= =E2dd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --egIzQse4RPU9l/BF-- --===============7436021523508005818== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe". --===============7436021523508005818==--