[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[Derek Buitenhuis]

This was pushed with outstanding reservations, with no positive
affirmation or review from any other devs, and without a push noticed
to say it was going to be pushed.

Further, the wallet is controlled by a single individual, and not
FFmpeg.

This reverts commit a8c21a7158fa6d41c332da7ccd203ea4057d4acf.

Signed-off-by: Derek Buitenhuis <derek.buitenhuis@gmail.com>
---
 FUNDING.json | 7 -------
 1 file changed, 7 deletions(-)
 delete mode 100644 FUNDING.json

diff --git a/FUNDING.json b/FUNDING.json
deleted file mode 100644
index 3ffd54cecc..0000000000
--- a/FUNDING.json
+++ /dev/null
@@ -1,7 +0,0 @@
-{
-  "drips": {
-    "ethereum": {
-      "ownedBy": "0x2f3900e7064eE63D30d749971265858612AA7139"
-    }
-  }
-}
-- 
2.49.0

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[Michael Niedermayer]

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Hi Derek

You said
"The only mails you'll see from me in the future are code or reviews."

On Mon, Jun 23, 2025 at 09:20:56PM +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
> This was pushed with outstanding reservations,

there where 2 comments in one mail but no objection
    The first was about SPI and taxes
    The second was about the domain owner of avcodec.org


> with no positive
> affirmation or review from any other devs,

The General Assembly was informed about the donation on the 9th june
and on the 18th about the solution with the json file
as well as my intend to implement this within 48h
that would be the 20th. i waited 3 more days both for members
of the GA as well as the public to comment


> and without a push noticed
> to say it was going to be pushed.

All members of the GA knew i intended to move forward
with this. And they also knew that there was a deadline of june 27th
for this. So everyone knew it would be pushed if theres no objection
because they saw the deadline date


> Further, the wallet is controlled by a single individual, and not
> FFmpeg.

The wallet belongs to the FFmpeg community. And its content, if it ever
has any content. Also belongs to FFmpeg.

It is currently managed by me. Which brings me tax complexities and work.

The wallet can be handed over to the SPI treassurer, if the SPI treassurer
accepts it.
The community can also discuss other ways to manage this wallet, it is
the FFmpeg communities wallet after all.

But the antagonizing and accusational tone of your mail is unacceptable.
Manging this wallet costs time, costs money, means responsibility.
Today alone i spend like 1-2 hours manually verifying the transaction
to connect this thing to the drips network.

reverting FUNDING.json will reduce trust by donators in FFmpeg.

thx

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

Awnsering whenever a program halts or runs forever is
On a turing machine, in general impossible (turings halting problem).
On any real computer, always possible as a real computer has a finite number
of states N, and will either halt in less than N cycles or never halt.

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel]

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From: Kieran Kunhya <kieran618@googlemail.com>
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org>
Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 05:29:36 +0100
Message-ID: <CABGuwEmm7ZFQjiFi3a=PE3dHOE8cwuGt5jfPZ35m9r7Rv4Wv7g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025, 02:12 Michael Niedermayer, <michael@niedermayer.cc>
wrote:

> Hi Derek
>
> You said
> "The only mails you'll see from me in the future are code or reviews."
>
> On Mon, Jun 23, 2025 at 09:20:56PM +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
> > This was pushed with outstanding reservations,
>
> there where 2 comments in one mail but no objection
>     The first was about SPI and taxes
>     The second was about the domain owner of avcodec.org
>
>
> > with no positive
> > affirmation or review from any other devs,
>
> The General Assembly was informed about the donation on the 9th june
> and on the 18th about the solution with the json file
> as well as my intend to implement this within 48h
> that would be the 20th. i waited 3 more days both for members
> of the GA as well as the public to comment
>
>
> > and without a push noticed
> > to say it was going to be pushed.
>
> All members of the GA knew i intended to move forward
> with this. And they also knew that there was a deadline of june 27th
> for this. So everyone knew it would be pushed if theres no objection
> because they saw the deadline date
>
>
> > Further, the wallet is controlled by a single individual, and not
> > FFmpeg.
>
> The wallet belongs to the FFmpeg community. And its content, if it ever
> has any content. Also belongs to FFmpeg.
>
> It is currently managed by me. Which brings me tax complexities and work.
>
> The wallet can be handed over to the SPI treassurer, if the SPI treassurer
> accepts it.
> The community can also discuss other ways to manage this wallet, it is
> the FFmpeg communities wallet after all.
>
> But the antagonizing and accusational tone of your mail is unacceptable.
> Manging this wallet costs time, costs money, means responsibility.
> Today alone i spend like 1-2 hours manually verifying the transaction
> to connect this thing to the drips network.
>
> reverting FUNDING.json will reduce trust by donators in FFmpeg.
>
> thx
>
> [...]
> --
>

Translation: Be thankful I am managing FFmpeg donations using my personal
wallet without any accountability to the community.

(Same level of accountability as avcodec.org

Derek, be thankful that Michael is doing this important work on behalf of
the community.

Kieran

>

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[Vittorio Giovara]

On Mon, Jun 23, 2025 at 9:12 PM Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
wrote:

> The General Assembly was informed about the donation on the 9th june
> and on the 18th about the solution with the json file
> as well as my intend to implement this within 48h
> that would be the 20th. i waited 3 more days both for members
> of the GA as well as the public to comment
>

FWIW I read the message but I thought it was a hoax/joke, not something
that would be committed.
I didn't reply because there are a lot of unanswered questions in the GA
mailing list that are pending a response from you, and it seemed pointless
to add to the pile of ignored emails.

This should never have been committed, please revert.

reverting FUNDING.json will reduce trust by donators in FFmpeg.


What reduces the trust by donors in FFmpeg is the lack of governance and
accountability.

Hope this helps
-- 
Vittorio
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[Derek Buitenhuis]

Hi,

On Monday, June 23, 2025, Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
wrote:

> Hi Derek
>
> You said
> "The only mails you'll see from me in the future are code or reviews."


Perhaps I should have written "patches or reviews". Nice way of inserting a
"fuck you", though. Appreciate it.


>
> On Mon, Jun 23, 2025 at 09:20:56PM +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
> > This was pushed with outstanding reservations,
>
> there where 2 comments in one mail but no objection
>     The first was about SPI and taxes
>     The second was about the domain owner of avcodec.org


Neither of which were replied to before pushing.


> > with no positive
> > affirmation or review from any other devs,
>
> The General Assembly was informed about the donation on the 9th june
> and on the 18th about the solution with the json file
> as well as my intend to implement this within 48h
> that would be the 20th. i waited 3 more days both for members
> of the GA as well as the public to comment


Pushed without the standard "will push soon" then.


> > and without a push noticed
> > to say it was going to be pushed.
>
> All members of the GA knew i intended to move forward
> with this. And they also knew that there was a deadline of june 27th
> for this. So everyone knew it would be pushed if theres no objection
> because they saw the deadline date


They did? Conjecture at best. A closed decision making process at worst.

Also the deadline is sus AF; a classic pressure tactic.


> > Further, the wallet is controlled by a single individual, and not
> > FFmpeg.
>
> The wallet belongs to the FFmpeg community. And its content, if it ever
> has any content. Also belongs to FFmpeg.


So who has access? Yeah.


> It is currently managed by me. Which brings me tax complexities and work.


> The wallet can be handed over to the SPI treassurer, if the SPI treassurer
> accepts it.


Did you consult SPI?



> The community can also discuss other ways to manage this wallet, it is
> the FFmpeg communities wallet after all.


Should have, before.


>
> But the antagonizing and accusational tone of your mail is unacceptable.
> Manging this wallet costs time, costs money, means responsibility.
> Today alone i spend like 1-2 hours manually verifying the transaction


WTF? 1-2 hr is insane.


> to connect this thing to the drips network.
>
> reverting FUNDING.json will reduce trust by donators in FFmpeg.


Long gone. FFmpeg is a laughing stock since long ago due to stuff like this.

Furthed, why does the project need this so much as to rush it in? There ia
tons of unspent money being sititng in SPI for years.

I suspect youve already whined to CC, as its number 1 complaintant; that is
fine. I have said my 2 cents.

All I see here is someone applying their personal ideaology to the project,
tbh.

Cheers.


>
> thx
>
> [...]
> --
> Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
>
> Awnsering whenever a program halts or runs forever is
> On a turing machine, in general impossible (turings halting problem).
> On any real computer, always possible as a real computer has a finite
> number
> of states N, and will either halt in less than N cycles or never halt.
>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[compn]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 21:20:56 +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:

> This was pushed with outstanding reservations, with no positive
> affirmation or review from any other devs, and without a push noticed
> to say it was going to be pushed.
> 
> Further, the wallet is controlled by a single individual, and not
> FFmpeg.

ffmpeg is not an organization nor registered group. it cannot own
anything because it is not a legal entity.

much like everything in the project, parts of ffmpeg are owned by
individual developers.

-compn
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel]

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From: Kieran Kunhya <kieran618@googlemail.com>
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org>
Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 07:48:30 +0100
Message-ID: <CABGuwE=5LbscbsJKi2XQTO31_Pn1459txrtkE1KnjDmGKqOQWA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025, 07:00 compn, <ff@hawaiiantel.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 21:20:56 +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
>
> > This was pushed with outstanding reservations, with no positive
> > affirmation or review from any other devs, and without a push noticed
> > to say it was going to be pushed.
> >
> > Further, the wallet is controlled by a single individual, and not
> > FFmpeg.
>
> ffmpeg is not an organization nor registered group. it cannot own
> anything because it is not a legal entity.
>
> much like everything in the project, parts of ffmpeg are owned by
> individual developers.
>
> -compn
>

You know perfectly well this wallet could be converted to USD and sent to
SPI but is being held as bitcoin purely out of ideological beliefs.

Kieran

>

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[compn]

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 07:48:30 +0100, Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Jun 2025, 07:00 compn, <ff@hawaiiantel.net> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 21:20:56 +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
> >  
> > > This was pushed with outstanding reservations, with no positive
> > > affirmation or review from any other devs, and without a push noticed
> > > to say it was going to be pushed.
> > >
> > > Further, the wallet is controlled by a single individual, and not
> > > FFmpeg.  
> >
> > ffmpeg is not an organization nor registered group. it cannot own
> > anything because it is not a legal entity.
> >
> > much like everything in the project, parts of ffmpeg are owned by
> > individual developers.
> >
> > -compn
> >  
> 
> You know perfectly well this wallet could be converted to USD and sent to
> SPI but is being held as bitcoin purely out of ideological beliefs.
> 
> Kieran
> 
> >  

I recommend anyone looking to do this to consult with an attorney, an
accountant, and review all local and international laws and treaties, as
well as the SPI ToS. It is not as easy as you say.

-compn
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel]

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From: Kieran Kunhya <kieran618@googlemail.com>
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org>
Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 10:22:26 +0200
Message-ID: <CABGuwEnnp7MfXYQf9dstG7ShjA87NKCJo8yBrJs5PsZgJh=0tA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 24 Jun 2025, 09:28 compn, <ff@hawaiiantel.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Jun 2025 07:48:30 +0100, Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 24 Jun 2025, 07:00 compn, <ff@hawaiiantel.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 21:20:56 +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
> > >
> > > > This was pushed with outstanding reservations, with no positive
> > > > affirmation or review from any other devs, and without a push noticed
> > > > to say it was going to be pushed.
> > > >
> > > > Further, the wallet is controlled by a single individual, and not
> > > > FFmpeg.
> > >
> > > ffmpeg is not an organization nor registered group. it cannot own
> > > anything because it is not a legal entity.
> > >
> > > much like everything in the project, parts of ffmpeg are owned by
> > > individual developers.
> > >
> > > -compn
> > >
> >
> > You know perfectly well this wallet could be converted to USD and sent to
> > SPI but is being held as bitcoin purely out of ideological beliefs.
> >
> > Kieran
> >
> > >
>
> I recommend anyone looking to do this to consult with an attorney, an
> accountant, and review all local and international laws and treaties, as
> well as the SPI ToS. It is not as easy as you say.
>
> -compn
>

None of what you wrote justified one person doing this unilaterally.

It's interesting that Michael claims this wallet is owned by the community
but won't be upfront about who owns avcodec.org.

Kieran

>

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[softworkz .]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ffmpeg-devel <ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org> On Behalf Of compn
> Sent: Dienstag, 24. Juni 2025 08:00
> To: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"
> 
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 21:20:56 +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
> 
> > This was pushed with outstanding reservations, with no positive
> > affirmation or review from any other devs, and without a push noticed
> > to say it was going to be pushed.
> >
> > Further, the wallet is controlled by a single individual, and not
> > FFmpeg.
> 
> ffmpeg is not an organization nor registered group. it cannot own
> anything because it is not a legal entity.

How about establishing one? Suitable forms might be

- Swiss Verein (Verein under Swiss Civil Code Art. 60–79)
- Belgian AISBL (Association Internationale Sans But Lucratif)

Maybe this would provide the missing framework which is essentially
the source of all those discussions?

Best regards,
sw
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[Michael Niedermayer]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1406 bytes --]

Hi Derek

so many different subjects you raise here, ill try to reply seperately
to keep it clean and terse

On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 06:24:32AM +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Monday, June 23, 2025, Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
[...]
> > On Mon, Jun 23, 2025 at 09:20:56PM +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
> > > This was pushed with outstanding reservations,
> >
> > there where 2 comments in one mail but no objection
> >     The first was about SPI and taxes
> >     The second was about the domain owner of avcodec.org
> 
> 
> Neither of which were replied to before pushing.

I can do usefull work or reply to things like above. I prefer to do usefull
work.

Over the years one learns that with some people the value for the community
is higher to just ignore them
We have more than 2000 people on this list, and for 0.1-0.2% of them i
have found replying is consistently a huge net negative.
Others can reply. These questions arent written for others. So the discussions
are much nicer and shorter if others reply.

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

If the United States is serious about tackling the national security threats 
related to an insecure 5G network, it needs to rethink the extent to which it
values corporate profits and government espionage over security.-Bruce Schneier

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 4772 bytes --]

From: Kieran Kunhya <kieran618@googlemail.com>
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org>
Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 16:59:45 +0200
Message-ID: <CABGuwEmYaKJGN3kqB8Hkkr_HSEjrpXTSFDv=VeBKrjKzRgC7UA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 4:53 PM Michael Niedermayer
<michael@niedermayer.cc> wrote:
>
> Hi Derek
>
> so many different subjects you raise here, ill try to reply seperately
> to keep it clean and terse
>
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 06:24:32AM +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Monday, June 23, 2025, Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
> [...]
> > > On Mon, Jun 23, 2025 at 09:20:56PM +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
> > > > This was pushed with outstanding reservations,
> > >
> > > there where 2 comments in one mail but no objection
> > >     The first was about SPI and taxes
> > >     The second was about the domain owner of avcodec.org
> >
> >
> > Neither of which were replied to before pushing.
>
> I can do usefull work or reply to things like above. I prefer to do usefull
> work.
>
> Over the years one learns that with some people the value for the community
> is higher to just ignore them
> We have more than 2000 people on this list, and for 0.1-0.2% of them i
> have found replying is consistently a huge net negative.
> Others can reply. These questions arent written for others. So the discussions
> are much nicer and shorter if others reply.

Hi Michael,

Thank you for your kind words. So just to confirm if Derek asked
directly who owns avcodec.org, you'd answer?

Kieran

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[Michael Niedermayer]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1431 bytes --]

Hi Derek

On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 06:24:32AM +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
> On Monday, June 23, 2025, Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
> 
> > > and without a push noticed
> > > to say it was going to be pushed.
> >
> > All members of the GA knew i intended to move forward
> > with this. And they also knew that there was a deadline of june 27th
> > for this. So everyone knew it would be pushed if theres no objection
> > because they saw the deadline date
[...]
> Also the deadline is sus AF; a classic pressure tactic.

I agree it looks sus but, if you take a step back and look at how this
whole drips thing works. Then it is understandable

with drips you can donate to any project on github
and that project can direct part of it, to its dependancies on github

for example https://github.com/efdevcon/tools
directs 8% to ffmpeg.

Now if someone stuffs let me guess 28k$ into devcon we get 2240$
but if they dont know if we will accept it ... they are better off
directing the 8% elsewhere.

And i wildly guess if by the deadline we arent setup they would
update their settings and send the 8% elsewhere

or maybe they would be just annoyed and give us another month,
i dont know

thx

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a
revolutionary act. -- George Orwell

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[Michael Niedermayer]

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Hi Derek

On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 06:24:32AM +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
> On Monday, June 23, 2025, Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
[...]
> > The wallet can be handed over to the SPI treassurer, if the SPI treassurer
> > accepts it.
> 
> 
> Did you consult SPI?

There are long discussions between me and SPI about crypto because of this
very donation

This lead to them discussing it on their last meeting and i guess also
internally since then

I suspect that they will have a vote about adding stablecoin donation support
to SPI through stripe on their next meeting. But i dont know this

discussion about them directly managing the wallet would come after that i assume


> 
> 
> 
> > The community can also discuss other ways to manage this wallet, it is
> > the FFmpeg communities wallet after all.
> 
> 
> Should have, before.

Noone stoped anyone from discussing, not before, not now, not tomorrow

also the FF in ffmpeg stands for fast forward.


> 
> 
> >
> > But the antagonizing and accusational tone of your mail is unacceptable.
> > Manging this wallet costs time, costs money, means responsibility.
> > Today alone i spend like 1-2 hours manually verifying the transaction
> 
> 
> WTF? 1-2 hr is insane.

yes, i overdid it especially for a wallet with 0$ in it

switched on even debug mode on the ledger and went though 40+ screens
and compared the arguments


-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision
of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet
notwithstanding go out to meet it. -- Thucydides

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] Revert "Add FUNDING.json"

[Vittorio Giovara]

> On Jun 24, 2025, at 10:53 AM, Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc> wrote:
> 
> Hi Derek
> 
> so many different subjects you raise here, ill try to reply seperately
> to keep it clean and terse
> 
>> On Tue, Jun 24, 2025 at 06:24:32AM +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> On Monday, June 23, 2025, Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
> [...]
>>>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2025 at 09:20:56PM +0100, Derek Buitenhuis wrote:
>>>>> This was pushed with outstanding reservations,
>>> 
>>> there where 2 comments in one mail but no objection
>>>    The first was about SPI and taxes
>>>    The second was about the domain owner of avcodec.org
>> 
>> 
>> Neither of which were replied to before pushing.
> 
> I can do usefull work or reply to things like above. I prefer to do usefull
> work.
> 
> Over the years one learns that with some people the value for the community
> is higher to just ignore them
> We have more than 2000 people on this list, and for 0.1-0.2% of them i
> have found replying is consistently a huge net negative.
> Others can reply. These questions arent written for others. So the discussions
> are much nicer and shorter if others reply.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

-- 
Vittorio 
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