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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org Sender: "ffmpeg-devel" <ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org> Archived-At: <https://master.gitmailbox.com/ffmpegdev/DM8P223MB03659894B8CCA23652D7524FBA832@DM8P223MB0365.NAMP223.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM/> List-Archive: <https://master.gitmailbox.com/ffmpegdev/> List-Post: <mailto:ffmpegdev@gitmailbox.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ffmpeg-devel <ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org> On Behalf Of softworkz . > Sent: Dienstag, 29. April 2025 20:07 > To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org> > Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] Shaping the AVTextFormat API Surface > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ffmpeg-devel <ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org> On Behalf Of Nicolas > > George > > Sent: Dienstag, 29. April 2025 10:31 > > To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org> > > Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] Shaping the AVTextFormat API Surface > > > > Stefano Sabatini (HE12025-04-27): > > > Elaborating on this. ffprobe/textformat is based on a notion of > > > hierarchical tree-like data > > > > No, this is not true. FFprobe and all its supporting code is based on > > one level of hierarchy. Just one level, not a real hierarchical > > structure. > > > > > Considering this, there is probably no need to extend the API to cover > > > each possible format full semantics - this at least it is my view. > > > > If we add XML-writing code in libavutil, it must be usable for all the > > places we are already producing XML. Otherwise it does not make sense. > > > > > As I wrote, this was not the purpose of the ffprobe formats in the > > > first place. MOV/DASH requires a specific use of an XML encoder. In > > > theory it might be done using the textformat API in the current form, > > > but it would be probably pretty awkward. We might want to factorize a > > > few generic utilities (e.g. escaping) to avoid code duplication > > > though. > > > > You are going at it backwards. > > > > The goal is not to cram this text writers API forcefully into libavutil > > and then see if it might serve other purposes, which is what softworkz > > is doing. > > No, this is not my intention. I thought I had laid it out a number of > times already, but in case it didn't come through clearly, let me > reiterate the agenda that I'm following and proposing: > > > 1. Extract the text formatting from ffprobe.c and transform it into > a generic API > > 2. Give that API a temporary home inside fftools as a staging area > > 3. Refine and polish the API inside fftools while adding additional > use cases (like graph printing) > > 4. Brainstorm and discuss which further changes and refinements are > needed to serve all the use cases that we are envisioning for the > future and apply those changes > > 5. Move it to avutil once we believe that it's ready for this > > > => 1 and 2 are done, 3 is in progress > > I'm not proposing to do 5 before 4. > > > > The API must be able to handle all our use cases from the start. Until > > then, it goes back to the design board. > > I never had any different intentions, albeit it can happen that there's > some very specific case that it would not be able to serve. > > But it should be able to serve the vast majority of cases, that goes > without saying. > > > A fundamental point from my point of view though, is that the API > must remain to be built around the sections concept at its core. It's > a strong concept that enables the exchangeability of the text formatters > independent from the individual use case. It has a number of > shortcomings (as has been mentioned already) in terms of how certain > data maps to the schema of individual formats, but there's sufficient > room to extend the sections concept in a way that makes it possible > to get better control of the way how it is represented in certain > output formats (like XML). > > Being able to add new formats in a way that these become immediately > available for all use cases is a high value that must not be > sacrificed. Not every format makes sense for all use cases, but > the ability to use all formats without any (or just little) extra > work is (and must remain to be) a key capability of the API. Additional thoughts: [Stefano] > > Considering this, there is probably no need to extend the API to cover > > each possible format full semantics - this at least it is my view. [Nicolas] > If we add XML-writing code in libavutil, it must be usable for all the > places we are already producing XML. Otherwise it does not make sense. This illustrates the kind of misunderstanding that appears to exist, and in this regard, I think, it's important to clear up about which kind of API we are talking about and which purposes it is meant to serve and which not: The AVTextFormat feature allows to create output data in a wide range of formats from a generic API that is agnostic to the format. It is not a format-specific API providing full-featured formatting for any format. That's the nature of this API and it won't change as it cannot change. > it must be usable for all the > places we are already producing XML. Otherwise it does not make sense How do you come to that idea? It's a generic, format-agnostic text formatting API. It is not an XML API. I didn't even get it in the first place that that's what you mean, it's somewhat far off... Hence I also need to clarify this: Where I said above that it should be able to cover all use cases, I meant "all use cases that need multi-format text output". But not: all cases that need full-featured XML output PLUS all cases that need full-featured JSON output PLUS all cases that need full- featured CSV output PLUS all cases that need full-featured YAML output, etc. If you want to create a full-featured XML writer that's fine, it's just something different from the AVTextFormat API. Best regards, sw _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".