Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH 1/3] avutils/hwcontext: add derive-device function which searches for existing devices in both directions

[Soft Works <softworkz@hotmail.com>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ffmpeg-devel <ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org> On Behalf Of Mark
> Thompson
> Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2022 10:23 PM
> To: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH 1/3] avutils/hwcontext: add derive-
> device function which searches for existing devices in both directions
> 
> On 03/05/2022 01:11, Soft Works wrote:
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: ffmpeg-devel <ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org> On Behalf Of
> Mark
> >> Thompson
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2022 1:57 AM
> >> To: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> >> Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH 1/3] avutils/hwcontext: add
> derive-
> >> device function which searches for existing devices in both
> directions
> >>
> >> On 02/05/2022 23:59, Soft Works wrote:
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: ffmpeg-devel <ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org> On Behalf Of
> >> Mark
> >>>> Thompson
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2022 12:12 AM
> >>>> To: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH 1/3] avutils/hwcontext: add
> >> derive-
> >>>> device function which searches for existing devices in both
> >> directions
> >>>>
> >>>> On 02/05/2022 09:14, Soft Works wrote:
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: ffmpeg-devel <ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org> On Behalf
> Of
> >>>> Mark
> >>>>>> Thompson
> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 2, 2022 12:01 AM
> >>>>>> To: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH 1/3] avutils/hwcontext: add
> >>>> derive-
> >>>>>> device function which searches for existing devices in both
> >>>> directions
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [..]
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> * The thread-safety properties of the hwcontext API have been
> >>>> lost
> >>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>> you can no longer operate on devices independently across
> >> threads
> >>>>>>>> (insofar as the underlying API allows that).
> >>>>>>>>        Maybe there is an argument that derivation is
> something
> >>>> which
> >>>>>>>> should happen early on and therefore documenting it as
> thread-
> >>>>>> unsafe
> >>>>>>>> is ok, but when hwupload/hwmap can use it inside filtergraphs
> >>>> that
> >>>>>>>> just isn't going to happen (and will be violated in the
> FFmpeg
> >>>>>> utility
> >>>>>>>> if filters get threaded, as is being worked on).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>     From my understanding there will be a single separate
> thread
> >>>> which
> >>>>>>> handles all filtergraph operations.
> >>>>>>> I don't think it would even be possible (without massive
> >> changes)
> >>>>>>> to arbitrate filter processing in parallel.
> >>>>>>> But even if this would be implemented: the filtergraph setup
> >>>> (init,
> >>>>>>> uninit, query_formats, etc.) would surely happen on a single
> >>>> thread.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The ffmpeg utility creates filtergraphs dynamically when the
> >> first
> >>>>>> frame is available from their inputs, so I don't see why you
> >>>> wouldn't
> >>>>>> allow multiple of them to be created in parallel in that case.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If you create all devices at the beginning and then give
> >> references
> >>>> to
> >>>>>> them to the various filters which need them (so never
> manipulate
> >>>>>> devices dynamically within the graph) then it would be ok, but
> I
> >>>> think
> >>>>>> you've already rejected that approach.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please let's not break out of the scope of this patchset.
> >>>>> This patchset is not about re-doing device derivation. The only
> >>>>> small change that it does is that it returns an existing device
> >>>>> instead of creating a new one when such device already exists
> >>>>> in the same(!) chain.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The change it makes has really nothing to do with threading or
> >>>>> anything around it.
> >>>>
> >>>> The change makes existing thread-safe hwcontext APIs unsafe.
> That
> >> is
> >>>> definitely not "nothing to do with threading", and has to be
> >> resolved
> >>>> since they can currently be called from contexts which expect
> >> thread-
> >>>> safety (such as making filtergraphs).
> >>>
> >>> As I said, I'm not aware that filtergraph creation would be a
> >> context
> >>> which requires thread-safety, even when considering frames which
> get
> >>> pushed into a filtergraph (like from a decoder).
> >>
> >> User programs can do whatever they like within the API constraints.
> >>
> >>> Could you please show a command line which causes a situation
> where
> >>> device_derive is being called from multiple threads?
> >>
> >> Given that the ffmpeg utility is currently entirely single-
> threaded,
> >> this will only happen once the intended plans for adding threading
> to
> >> it are complete.
> >
> > As mentioned, I don't think that would be possible easily, and from
> > what I have understood, the plan is to have separate threads for
> decoding,
> > encoding and filtering but not multiple threads for filtering.
> 
> As the summary in <https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-
> devel/2022-April/294940.html> states, the intent is a separate thread
> for each instance of those things, including filtergraphs.
> 
> >> With that, it will be true for something which makes two
> filtergraphs
> >> and uses derivation in both of them.  For example:, this currently
> >> makes two independent VAAPI devices, but equally could reuse the
> same
> >> device:
> >>
> >> # ffmpeg -y -f kmsgrab -i /dev/dri/card0 -vf
> >> hwmap=derive_device=vaapi,scale_vaapi=format=nv12 -c:v h264_vaapi
> >> out1.mp4 -vf
> >> hwmap=derive_device=vaapi,scale_vaapi=w=1280:h=720:format=nv12 -c:v
> >> h264_vaapi out2.mp4
> >
> > Well, multi-threading is not an issue right now, and I don't expect
> it
> > to be then.
> >
> > But on a more practical take: what do you want me to do?
> >
> > Guard that function with a lock? I can do this, no problem.
> 
> I'd like it to be designed in a way that avoids this sort of problem,
> as all the existing functions are.
> 
> >                                                             But
> > none of any of the device control function does any synchronization,
> > so why would exactly this - and only this function need
> synchronization?
> 
> The derived_devices field is modified post-creation, which gives you
> data races if there is no other synchronisation.
> 
> (Consider simultaneous derivation calls: currently that's completely
> fine - it makes no changes to the parent device and the derived
> devices are independent.  With your proposed patch there is undefined
> behaviour because of the simultaneous reading and writing of the
> derived_devices field.)
> 
> The only other mutable field is the buffer pool in a frames context,
> which has its own internal synchronisation.
> 
> Having thought about this a bit further, I suspect you are going to
> need an additional shared-devices object of some kind in order to get
> around the circular references and fix the memory leak problem.
> 
> That additional object will have to be mutable and accessible from
> multiple threads, so will probably need an internal lock (or careful
> lock-free design).

Yup, that sounds quite reasonable to me.
Very helpful comment, thanks!


_______________________________________________
ffmpeg-devel mailing list
ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel

To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email
ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".