[FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request Apple M2

[FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request Apple M2

[Thilo Borgmann]

Hi,

the M2 chip recently made it from the laptops into the mini as well.
It's the generation of the Chip, I think we should buy one and have that running FATE as well.

Kieran agreed on hosting this one like he does for the existing M1 machines.
There are currently two M1 machines running at Kieran's, one of which runs FATE and the other is basically idle.

So I propose to

a) spend funding on buying one new M2 to run FATE at Kieran's and
b) retire the idle M1 machine and have that send to me to replace my Core i7 mini from 2014.

If nobody objects, Kieran will buy the new machine and requests reimbursement here.

Thanks,
Thilo
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request Apple M2

[Jean-Baptiste Kempf]

On Mon, 6 Feb 2023, at 04:17, Thilo Borgmann wrote:
> Kieran agreed on hosting this one like he does for the existing M1 
> machines.
> There are currently two M1 machines running at Kieran's, one of which 
> runs FATE and the other is basically idle.
>
> So I propose to
>
> a) spend funding on buying one new M2 to run FATE at Kieran's and
> b) retire the idle M1 machine and have that send to me to replace my 
> Core i7 mini from 2014.

OK.

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request Apple M2

[Paul B Mahol]

On 2/6/23, Thilo Borgmann <thilo.borgmann@mail.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> the M2 chip recently made it from the laptops into the mini as well.
> It's the generation of the Chip, I think we should buy one and have that
> running FATE as well.
>
> Kieran agreed on hosting this one like he does for the existing M1
> machines.
> There are currently two M1 machines running at Kieran's, one of which runs
> FATE and the other is basically idle.
>
> So I propose to
>
> a) spend funding on buying one new M2 to run FATE at Kieran's and
> b) retire the idle M1 machine and have that send to me to replace my Core i7
> mini from 2014.
>
> If nobody objects, Kieran will buy the new machine and requests
> reimbursement here.
>

I use 'idle' machine for benchmarks.

For personal computer you buy it on own.

> Thanks,
> Thilo
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request Apple M2

[Thilo Borgmann]

Hi,

> the M2 chip recently made it from the laptops into the mini as well.
> It's the generation of the Chip, I think we should buy one and have that running FATE as well.
> 
> Kieran agreed on hosting this one like he does for the existing M1 machines.
> There are currently two M1 machines running at Kieran's, one of which runs FATE and the other is basically idle.
> 
> So I propose to
> 
> a) spend funding on buying one new M2 to run FATE at Kieran's and
> b) retire the idle M1 machine and have that send to me to replace my Core i7 mini from 2014.
> 
> If nobody objects, Kieran will buy the new machine and requests reimbursement here.

Martin pointed out we don't need an M2 for FATE as the instruction sets are equal on both machines.

So I change this request to just buy me an M2 mini then for ffwork.
Also saves some trouble sending the machines around and possible customs coming from the UK.

Paul's complaint I use it only for my personal use is of course wrong.
Also he is not using it for benching atm - though others might but with just buying a new M2 nothing changes for anyone with access to the existing machines.

I'd need another OK for this change of plans, of course.

Thanks,
Thilo
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request Apple M2

[Devin Heitmueller]

On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 6:24 AM Thilo Borgmann <thilo.borgmann@mail.de> wrote:
> Martin pointed out we don't need an M2 for FATE as the instruction sets are equal on both machines.

It may be worth noting that while the M1 and M2 have the same
instruction set, there is no guarantee the video processing blocks are
identical.  At a minimum we know that the ProRes acceleration supports
8K resolutions in the M2.

I got burned by a subtle change in behavior for videotoolbox between
Intel and M1, so it's possible there are comparable differences
between M1 and M2.  If the tests include validating hardware
acceleration then there may still be benefits in running the tests on
both platforms.

Devin

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o: +1 (301) 363-1001
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request Apple M2

[Thilo Borgmann]

Am 07.02.23 um 21:19 schrieb Devin Heitmueller:
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 6:24 AM Thilo Borgmann <thilo.borgmann@mail.de> wrote:
>> Martin pointed out we don't need an M2 for FATE as the instruction sets are equal on both machines.
> 
> It may be worth noting that while the M1 and M2 have the same
> instruction set, there is no guarantee the video processing blocks are
> identical.  At a minimum we know that the ProRes acceleration supports
> 8K resolutions in the M2.
> 
> I got burned by a subtle change in behavior for videotoolbox between
> Intel and M1, so it's possible there are comparable differences
> between M1 and M2.  If the tests include validating hardware
> acceleration then there may still be benefits in running the tests on
> both platforms.

Thanks for throwing that in. AFAICT we still don't cover hw accells in FATE, though.

-Thilo
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request Apple M2

[Martin Storsjö]

Hi Devin, Thilo,

On Tue, 7 Feb 2023, Thilo Borgmann wrote:

> Am 07.02.23 um 21:19 schrieb Devin Heitmueller:
>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 6:24 AM Thilo Borgmann <thilo.borgmann@mail.de> 
>> wrote:
>>> Martin pointed out we don't need an M2 for FATE as the instruction sets 
>>> are equal on both machines.
>> 
>> It may be worth noting that while the M1 and M2 have the same
>> instruction set, there is no guarantee the video processing blocks are
>> identical.  At a minimum we know that the ProRes acceleration supports
>> 8K resolutions in the M2.

Ah, good point. Yeah they're probably not identical, but I would kinda 
expect them to be mostly similar.

>> I got burned by a subtle change in behavior for videotoolbox between
>> Intel and M1,

Yeah those two implementations are entirely totally different - they 
differ on essentially every single observable detail.

>> so it's possible there are comparable differences between M1 and M2.

Yes it's somewhat possible that something could differ, but TBH I don't 
expect the difference to be very big.

E.g., I've tracked bugs in Apple's HW HEVC encoder, where the same bug has 
been observable across many generations of iPhones up until the M1 (until 
the bug was fixed in the latest iOS and macOS updates last year).

>> If the tests include validating hardware acceleration then there may 
>> still be benefits in running the tests on both platforms.
>
> Thanks for throwing that in. AFAICT we still don't cover hw accells in FATE, 
> though.

Yeah we don't do that currently - but we probably should; at least some 
level of smoke testing would be extremely useful.

In any case - I'm not arguing against using the available funds for 
getting an M2, that sounds like a totally reasonable thing to do - I'm 
just saying that I don't think it gives much extra value in the context of 
a separate FATE instance.

// Martin

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request Apple M2

[Neal Gompa]

On Tue, Feb 7, 2023 at 4:41 PM Martin Storsjö <martin@martin.st> wrote:
>
> Hi Devin, Thilo,
>
> On Tue, 7 Feb 2023, Thilo Borgmann wrote:
>
> > Am 07.02.23 um 21:19 schrieb Devin Heitmueller:
> >> On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 6:24 AM Thilo Borgmann <thilo.borgmann@mail.de>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Martin pointed out we don't need an M2 for FATE as the instruction sets
> >>> are equal on both machines.
> >>
> >> It may be worth noting that while the M1 and M2 have the same
> >> instruction set, there is no guarantee the video processing blocks are
> >> identical.  At a minimum we know that the ProRes acceleration supports
> >> 8K resolutions in the M2.
>
> Ah, good point. Yeah they're probably not identical, but I would kinda
> expect them to be mostly similar.
>
> >> I got burned by a subtle change in behavior for videotoolbox between
> >> Intel and M1,
>
> Yeah those two implementations are entirely totally different - they
> differ on essentially every single observable detail.
>
> >> so it's possible there are comparable differences between M1 and M2.
>
> Yes it's somewhat possible that something could differ, but TBH I don't
> expect the difference to be very big.
>
> E.g., I've tracked bugs in Apple's HW HEVC encoder, where the same bug has
> been observable across many generations of iPhones up until the M1 (until
> the bug was fixed in the latest iOS and macOS updates last year).
>
> >> If the tests include validating hardware acceleration then there may
> >> still be benefits in running the tests on both platforms.
> >
> > Thanks for throwing that in. AFAICT we still don't cover hw accells in FATE,
> > though.
>
> Yeah we don't do that currently - but we probably should; at least some
> level of smoke testing would be extremely useful.
>
> In any case - I'm not arguing against using the available funds for
> getting an M2, that sounds like a totally reasonable thing to do - I'm
> just saying that I don't think it gives much extra value in the context of
> a separate FATE instance.
>

I don't know this for sure, but I suspect that we're going to see
future enablement of AV1 decoding on M2, judging by the Safari release
notes: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari-release-notes/safari-16_4-release-notes

Quote: "Added WebRTC support for hardware AV1 decoding on supported
device configurations."

Of course, it's just a guess, but if we start testing hwaccels, that
might be relevant eventually.



-- 
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request Apple M2

[Stefano Sabatini]

On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 4:17 AM Thilo Borgmann <thilo.borgmann@mail.de> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> the M2 chip recently made it from the laptops into the mini as well.
> It's the generation of the Chip, I think we should buy one and have that running FATE as well.
>
> Kieran agreed on hosting this one like he does for the existing M1 machines.
> There are currently two M1 machines running at Kieran's, one of which runs FATE and the other is basically idle.
>
> So I propose to
>
> a) spend funding on buying one new M2 to run FATE at Kieran's and
> b) retire the idle M1 machine and have that send to me to replace my Core i7 mini from 2014.
>
> If nobody objects, Kieran will buy the new machine and requests reimbursement here.

Approved on my side.

To make the request official, we need at least a rough estimate of the
cost of the hardware (including shipping), then we can proceed with
the purchase and refund request.

Best regards,
Stefano
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request Apple M2

[Thilo Borgmann]

Am 23.02.23 um 10:44 schrieb Stefano Sabatini:
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 4:17 AM Thilo Borgmann <thilo.borgmann@mail.de> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> the M2 chip recently made it from the laptops into the mini as well.
>> It's the generation of the Chip, I think we should buy one and have that running FATE as well.
>>
>> Kieran agreed on hosting this one like he does for the existing M1 machines.
>> There are currently two M1 machines running at Kieran's, one of which runs FATE and the other is basically idle.
>>
>> So I propose to
>>
>> a) spend funding on buying one new M2 to run FATE at Kieran's and
>> b) retire the idle M1 machine and have that send to me to replace my Core i7 mini from 2014.
>>
>> If nobody objects, Kieran will buy the new machine and requests reimbursement here.
> 
> Approved on my side.
> 
> To make the request official, we need at least a rough estimate of the
> cost of the hardware (including shipping), then we can proceed with
> the purchase and refund request.

Currently the price is around 2200 EUR.

Thank you,
Thilo

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request Apple M2

[Stefano Sabatini]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 1:47 PM Thilo Borgmann <thilo.borgmann@mail.de> wrote:
>
> Am 23.02.23 um 10:44 schrieb Stefano Sabatini:
> > On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 4:17 AM Thilo Borgmann <thilo.borgmann@mail.de> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> the M2 chip recently made it from the laptops into the mini as well.
> >> It's the generation of the Chip, I think we should buy one and have that running FATE as well.
> >>
> >> Kieran agreed on hosting this one like he does for the existing M1 machines.
> >> There are currently two M1 machines running at Kieran's, one of which runs FATE and the other is basically idle.
> >>
> >> So I propose to
> >>
> >> a) spend funding on buying one new M2 to run FATE at Kieran's and
> >> b) retire the idle M1 machine and have that send to me to replace my Core i7 mini from 2014.
> >>
> >> If nobody objects, Kieran will buy the new machine and requests reimbursement here.
> >
> > Approved on my side.
> >
> > To make the request official, we need at least a rough estimate of the
> > cost of the hardware (including shipping), then we can proceed with
> > the purchase and refund request.
>
> Currently the price is around 2200 EUR.

Approved on my side, pending Michael's approval.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Hardware purchase request Apple M2

[Michael Niedermayer]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1612 bytes --]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 04:27:38PM +0100, Stefano Sabatini wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 1:47 PM Thilo Borgmann <thilo.borgmann@mail.de> wrote:
> >
> > Am 23.02.23 um 10:44 schrieb Stefano Sabatini:
> > > On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 4:17 AM Thilo Borgmann <thilo.borgmann@mail.de> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> the M2 chip recently made it from the laptops into the mini as well.
> > >> It's the generation of the Chip, I think we should buy one and have that running FATE as well.
> > >>
> > >> Kieran agreed on hosting this one like he does for the existing M1 machines.
> > >> There are currently two M1 machines running at Kieran's, one of which runs FATE and the other is basically idle.
> > >>
> > >> So I propose to
> > >>
> > >> a) spend funding on buying one new M2 to run FATE at Kieran's and
> > >> b) retire the idle M1 machine and have that send to me to replace my Core i7 mini from 2014.
> > >>
> > >> If nobody objects, Kieran will buy the new machine and requests reimbursement here.
> > >
> > > Approved on my side.
> > >
> > > To make the request official, we need at least a rough estimate of the
> > > cost of the hardware (including shipping), then we can proceed with
> > > the purchase and refund request.
> >
> > Currently the price is around 2200 EUR.
> 
> Approved on my side, pending Michael's approval.

ok

[...]

-- 
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