[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Kieran Kunhya]

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$subj

As discussed at FOSDEM.

Kieran

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Paul B Mahol]

On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 10:13 PM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:

> $subj
>
> As discussed at FOSDEM.
>

Author of this patch above is forced to FUZZ this decoder until
experimental flag is removed.


>
> Kieran
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Kieran Kunhya]

On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 at 22:06, Paul B Mahol <onemda@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 10:13 PM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
>
> > $subj
> >
> > As discussed at FOSDEM.
> >
>
> Author of this patch above is forced to FUZZ this decoder until
> experimental flag is removed.
>

Sure, I will set some fuzzers up over the weekend.

Kieran
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Nuo Mi]

On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 6:55 AM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 at 22:06, Paul B Mahol <onemda@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 10:13 PM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
> >
> > > $subj
> > >
> > > As discussed at FOSDEM.
> > >
> >
> > Author of this patch above is forced to FUZZ this decoder until
> > experimental flag is removed.
> >
>
> Sure, I will set some fuzzers up over the weekend.
>
Better add something here
https://ffmpeg.org/developer.html#New-codecs-or-formats-checklist to
explain to people what kind of new codecs should be treated as experimental
and how they can graduate from experimental status.

>
> Kieran
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Kieran Kunhya]

On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 at 06:01, Nuo Mi <nuomi2021@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 6:55 AM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 at 22:06, Paul B Mahol <onemda@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 10:13 PM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
> > >
> > > > $subj
> > > >
> > > > As discussed at FOSDEM.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Author of this patch above is forced to FUZZ this decoder until
> > > experimental flag is removed.
> > >
> >
> > Sure, I will set some fuzzers up over the weekend.
> >
> Better add something here
> https://ffmpeg.org/developer.html#New-codecs-or-formats-checklist to
> explain to people what kind of new codecs should be treated as experimental
> and how they can graduate from experimental status.
>

Hi Nuo,

Sure, this isn't saying your incredible work is bad. It's just the reality
that a complex codec needs to be fuzzed heavily otherwise the security
community will report FFmpeg 7.0 has a ton of security issues.

Regards,
Kieran Kunhya
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Nuo Mi]

On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 2:16 AM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:

> On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 at 06:01, Nuo Mi <nuomi2021@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 6:55 AM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 at 22:06, Paul B Mahol <onemda@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 10:13 PM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > $subj
> > > > >
> > > > > As discussed at FOSDEM.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Author of this patch above is forced to FUZZ this decoder until
> > > > experimental flag is removed.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Sure, I will set some fuzzers up over the weekend.
> > >
> > Better add something here
> > https://ffmpeg.org/developer.html#New-codecs-or-formats-checklist to
> > explain to people what kind of new codecs should be treated as
> experimental
> > and how they can graduate from experimental status.
> >
>
> Hi Nuo,
>
> Sure, this isn't saying your incredible work is bad. It's just the reality
> that a complex codec needs to be fuzzed heavily otherwise the security
> community will report FFmpeg 7.0 has a ton of security issues.
>
Hi  Kieran,
Don't overthink it; I have no ego in this matter. I fully support you.
The checklist was incredibly helpful for me, and I believe documenting the
steps will assist other new codec developers too

>
> Regards,
> Kieran Kunhya
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Nuo Mi]

On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 11:54 AM Nuo Mi <nuomi2021@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 2:16 AM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 at 06:01, Nuo Mi <nuomi2021@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 6:55 AM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 at 22:06, Paul B Mahol <onemda@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 10:13 PM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv>
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > $subj
>> > > > >
>> > > > > As discussed at FOSDEM.
>>
> If there are no objections, I'll push it tomorrow.
thank you, Kieran and Paul.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Nuo Mi]

>
>
>>>
>>> If there are no objections, I'll push it tomorrow.
> thank you, Kieran and Paul.
>
Hi Kieran,
Patchwork didn't get your patch.
I've checked the fate status locally, and it indicates that "make fate-vvc"
will fail.
Could you please send a new one to the patchwork?

Thank you.
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Kieran Kunhya]

On Wed, 14 Feb 2024, 02:58 Nuo Mi, <nuomi2021@gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> >
> >>>
> >>> If there are no objections, I'll push it tomorrow.
> > thank you, Kieran and Paul.
> >
> Hi Kieran,
> Patchwork didn't get your patch.
> I've checked the fate status locally, and it indicates that "make fate-vvc"
> will fail.
> Could you please send a new one to the patchwork?
>
> Thank you.
>

I am not sure how to do that on Windows unfortunately. Patchwork doesn't
seem to support attachment patches.

Kieran

>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Michael Niedermayer]

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On Wed, Feb 07, 2024 at 10:55:18PM +0000, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 at 22:06, Paul B Mahol <onemda@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 10:13 PM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
> >
> > > $subj
> > >
> > > As discussed at FOSDEM.
> > >
> >
> > Author of this patch above is forced to FUZZ this decoder until
> > experimental flag is removed.
> >
> 
> Sure, I will set some fuzzers up over the weekend.

over a month later ...
has this been done ?


thx

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

Why not whip the teacher when the pupil misbehaves? -- Diogenes of Sinope

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Kieran Kunhya]

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, 22:54 Michael Niedermayer, <michael@niedermayer.cc>
wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 07, 2024 at 10:55:18PM +0000, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 at 22:06, Paul B Mahol <onemda@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 10:13 PM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
> > >
> > > > $subj
> > > >
> > > > As discussed at FOSDEM.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Author of this patch above is forced to FUZZ this decoder until
> > > experimental flag is removed.
> > >
> >
> > Sure, I will set some fuzzers up over the weekend.
>
> over a month later ...
> has this been done ?
>
>
> thx
>
> [...]
>

Frank said there was no need as he was doing it himself.

I do not appreciate your passive aggressive tone.

Kieran

>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Frank Plowman]

On 15/03/2024 10:22, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, 22:54 Michael Niedermayer, <michael@niedermayer.cc>
> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Feb 07, 2024 at 10:55:18PM +0000, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
>>> On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 at 22:06, Paul B Mahol <onemda@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 10:13 PM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> $subj
>>>>>
>>>>> As discussed at FOSDEM.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Author of this patch above is forced to FUZZ this decoder until
>>>> experimental flag is removed.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure, I will set some fuzzers up over the weekend.
>>
>> over a month later ...
>> has this been done ?
>>
>>
>> thx
>>
>> [...]
>>
> 
> Frank said there was no need as he was doing it himself.
> 
> I do not appreciate your passive aggressive tone.
> 
> Kieran
> 

I have been fuzzing since the end of January.  Various patches have made
the decoder much more robust than it was then.  Still getting a crash on
occasion, but most are now false positives due to assertion failures
rather than segmentation faults or other potential security issues.
That being said, the hardware I am using is extremely modest compared to
oss-fuzz's.

-- 
Frank
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Andreas Rheinhardt]

Frank Plowman:
> On 15/03/2024 10:22, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, 22:54 Michael Niedermayer, <michael@niedermayer.cc>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 07, 2024 at 10:55:18PM +0000, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 at 22:06, Paul B Mahol <onemda@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 10:13 PM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> $subj
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As discussed at FOSDEM.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Author of this patch above is forced to FUZZ this decoder until
>>>>> experimental flag is removed.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sure, I will set some fuzzers up over the weekend.
>>>
>>> over a month later ...
>>> has this been done ?
>>>
>>>
>>> thx
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>
>> Frank said there was no need as he was doing it himself.
>>
>> I do not appreciate your passive aggressive tone.
>>
>> Kieran
>>
> 
> I have been fuzzing since the end of January.  Various patches have made
> the decoder much more robust than it was then.  Still getting a crash on
> occasion, but most are now false positives due to assertion failures
> rather than segmentation faults or other potential security issues.
> That being said, the hardware I am using is extremely modest compared to
> oss-fuzz's.

An assertion failure is not a false positive. Even if it is an av_assert2.

- Andreas

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Nuo Mi]

On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 11:05 PM Andreas Rheinhardt <
andreas.rheinhardt@outlook.com> wrote:

> Frank Plowman:
> > On 15/03/2024 10:22, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
> >> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, 22:54 Michael Niedermayer, <michael@niedermayer.cc
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, Feb 07, 2024 at 10:55:18PM +0000, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 at 22:06, Paul B Mahol <onemda@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 10:13 PM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> $subj
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As discussed at FOSDEM.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Author of this patch above is forced to FUZZ this decoder until
> >>>>> experimental flag is removed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sure, I will set some fuzzers up over the weekend.
> >>>
> >>> over a month later ...
> >>> has this been done ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> thx
> >>>
> >>> [...]
> >>>
> >>
> >> Frank said there was no need as he was doing it himself.
> >>
> >> I do not appreciate your passive aggressive tone.
> >>
> >> Kieran
> >>
> >
> > I have been fuzzing since the end of January.  Various patches have made
> > the decoder much more robust than it was then.  Still getting a crash on
> > occasion, but most are now false positives due to assertion failures
> > rather than segmentation faults or other potential security issues.
> > That being said, the hardware I am using is extremely modest compared to
> > oss-fuzz's.
>
> An assertion failure is not a false positive. Even if it is an av_assert2.
>
Agree, we need to return PATCH_WELCOME for them too.

>
> - Andreas
>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Nuo Mi]

On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 11:01 PM Frank Plowman <post@frankplowman.com>
wrote:

> On 15/03/2024 10:22, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
> > On Thu, 14 Mar 2024, 22:54 Michael Niedermayer, <michael@niedermayer.cc>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Feb 07, 2024 at 10:55:18PM +0000, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 at 22:06, Paul B Mahol <onemda@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 10:13 PM Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> $subj
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As discussed at FOSDEM.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Author of this patch above is forced to FUZZ this decoder until
> >>>> experimental flag is removed.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Sure, I will set some fuzzers up over the weekend.
> >>
> >> over a month later ...
> >> has this been done ?
> >>
> >>
> >> thx
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >
> > Frank said there was no need as he was doing it himself.
> >
> > I do not appreciate your passive aggressive tone.
> >
> > Kieran
> >
>
> I have been fuzzing since the end of January.  Various patches have made
> the decoder much more robust than it was then.  Still getting a crash on
> occasion, but most are now false positives due to assertion failures
> rather than segmentation faults or other potential security issues.
> That being said, the hardware I am using is extremely modest compared to
> oss-fuzz's.
>
👍

>
> --
> Frank
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Andreas Rheinhardt]

Kieran Kunhya:
> From 15c9311c49ebbe87fc4517b67cb73b3079ec3510 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv>
> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2024 21:10:08 +0000
> Subject: [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental
> 
> ---
>  libavcodec/vvc/vvcdec.c | 2 +-
>  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)
> 
> diff --git a/libavcodec/vvc/vvcdec.c b/libavcodec/vvc/vvcdec.c
> index 8163b5e..e0554c6 100644
> --- a/libavcodec/vvc/vvcdec.c
> +++ b/libavcodec/vvc/vvcdec.c
> @@ -1011,7 +1011,7 @@ const FFCodec ff_vvc_decoder = {
>      .close          = vvc_decode_free,
>      FF_CODEC_DECODE_CB(vvc_decode_frame),
>      .flush          = vvc_decode_flush,
> -    .p.capabilities = AV_CODEC_CAP_DR1 | AV_CODEC_CAP_DELAY | AV_CODEC_CAP_OTHER_THREADS,
> +    .p.capabilities = AV_CODEC_CAP_DR1 | AV_CODEC_CAP_DELAY | AV_CODEC_CAP_OTHER_THREADS | AV_CODEC_CAP_EXPERIMENTAL,
>      .caps_internal  = FF_CODEC_CAP_EXPORTS_CROPPING | FF_CODEC_CAP_INIT_CLEANUP |
>                        FF_CODEC_CAP_AUTO_THREADS,
>      .p.profiles     = NULL_IF_CONFIG_SMALL(ff_vvc_profiles),

Did you run FATE with that? If I am not mistaken, all the VVC decoding
tests (and probably also tests where the VVC decoder is only used to get
stream parameters) will fail (in avcodec_open2()) now, because
strict_std_compliance does by default not allow experimental codecs.

- Andreas

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[Kieran Kunhya]

On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 at 11:47, Andreas Rheinhardt <
andreas.rheinhardt@outlook.com> wrote:

> Kieran Kunhya:
> > From 15c9311c49ebbe87fc4517b67cb73b3079ec3510 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> > From: Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv>
> > Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2024 21:10:08 +0000
> > Subject: [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental
> >
> > ---
> >  libavcodec/vvc/vvcdec.c | 2 +-
> >  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)
> >
> > diff --git a/libavcodec/vvc/vvcdec.c b/libavcodec/vvc/vvcdec.c
> > index 8163b5e..e0554c6 100644
> > --- a/libavcodec/vvc/vvcdec.c
> > +++ b/libavcodec/vvc/vvcdec.c
> > @@ -1011,7 +1011,7 @@ const FFCodec ff_vvc_decoder = {
> >      .close          = vvc_decode_free,
> >      FF_CODEC_DECODE_CB(vvc_decode_frame),
> >      .flush          = vvc_decode_flush,
> > -    .p.capabilities = AV_CODEC_CAP_DR1 | AV_CODEC_CAP_DELAY |
> AV_CODEC_CAP_OTHER_THREADS,
> > +    .p.capabilities = AV_CODEC_CAP_DR1 | AV_CODEC_CAP_DELAY |
> AV_CODEC_CAP_OTHER_THREADS | AV_CODEC_CAP_EXPERIMENTAL,
> >      .caps_internal  = FF_CODEC_CAP_EXPORTS_CROPPING |
> FF_CODEC_CAP_INIT_CLEANUP |
> >                        FF_CODEC_CAP_AUTO_THREADS,
> >      .p.profiles     = NULL_IF_CONFIG_SMALL(ff_vvc_profiles),
>
> Did you run FATE with that? If I am not mistaken, all the VVC decoding
> tests (and probably also tests where the VVC decoder is only used to get
> stream parameters) will fail (in avcodec_open2()) now, because
> strict_std_compliance does by default not allow experimental codecs.
>

I am aware, it was more to see if there were any objections to the FOSDEM
decision to make it experimental.

Kieran
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental

[James Almer]

On 2/14/2024 10:41 AM, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 at 11:47, Andreas Rheinhardt <
> andreas.rheinhardt@outlook.com> wrote:
> 
>> Kieran Kunhya:
>>>  From 15c9311c49ebbe87fc4517b67cb73b3079ec3510 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
>>> From: Kieran Kunhya <kierank@obe.tv>
>>> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2024 21:10:08 +0000
>>> Subject: [PATCH] vvcdec: Mark as experimental
>>>
>>> ---
>>>   libavcodec/vvc/vvcdec.c | 2 +-
>>>   1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)
>>>
>>> diff --git a/libavcodec/vvc/vvcdec.c b/libavcodec/vvc/vvcdec.c
>>> index 8163b5e..e0554c6 100644
>>> --- a/libavcodec/vvc/vvcdec.c
>>> +++ b/libavcodec/vvc/vvcdec.c
>>> @@ -1011,7 +1011,7 @@ const FFCodec ff_vvc_decoder = {
>>>       .close          = vvc_decode_free,
>>>       FF_CODEC_DECODE_CB(vvc_decode_frame),
>>>       .flush          = vvc_decode_flush,
>>> -    .p.capabilities = AV_CODEC_CAP_DR1 | AV_CODEC_CAP_DELAY |
>> AV_CODEC_CAP_OTHER_THREADS,
>>> +    .p.capabilities = AV_CODEC_CAP_DR1 | AV_CODEC_CAP_DELAY |
>> AV_CODEC_CAP_OTHER_THREADS | AV_CODEC_CAP_EXPERIMENTAL,
>>>       .caps_internal  = FF_CODEC_CAP_EXPORTS_CROPPING |
>> FF_CODEC_CAP_INIT_CLEANUP |
>>>                         FF_CODEC_CAP_AUTO_THREADS,
>>>       .p.profiles     = NULL_IF_CONFIG_SMALL(ff_vvc_profiles),
>>
>> Did you run FATE with that? If I am not mistaken, all the VVC decoding
>> tests (and probably also tests where the VVC decoder is only used to get
>> stream parameters) will fail (in avcodec_open2()) now, because
>> strict_std_compliance does by default not allow experimental codecs.
>>
> 
> I am aware, it was more to see if there were any objections to the FOSDEM
> decision to make it experimental.
> 
> Kieran

I'll apply this patch soon (with the addition of forcing the vvc decoder 
and -strict experimental for the tests).
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