From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from ffbox0-bg.ffmpeg.org (ffbox0-bg.ffmpeg.org [79.124.17.100]) by master.gitmailbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27F314BF35 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2025 21:08:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.1.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ffbox0-bg.ffmpeg.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C94F368D645; Sun, 27 Jul 2025 00:08:29 +0300 (EEST) Received: from mail-ed1-f42.google.com (mail-ed1-f42.google.com [209.85.208.42]) by ffbox0-bg.ffmpeg.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15661680355 for ; Sun, 27 Jul 2025 00:08:23 +0300 (EEST) Received: by mail-ed1-f42.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-60c5b8ee2d9so6611435a12.2 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 2025 14:08:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1753564102; x=1754168902; darn=ffmpeg.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=40G1/nBm7Zgo5Py6nn26HFzmE1y4m1LLN4QZgrVjMPQ=; b=gWKBqzvlfWcL5eNsY9dbJgOCJWTM19ROrpdKkDa91mE+gxz2b9NgiJIyL67ZFZ78OV hWM1hG4hOmYtPmatKYVZrR44O0AAemKNE4bjOV0jY7NbtnrLPnphinnO49GRL+ozNEgU Df7jJqp2Cma/bQ1NJZDgsHKQ7jvgWfgVL0BvKsKWBFvA2GkkRxNyUcDcXSWKwPnBzQ0m Bt44l6TcLijsA6r8mUmDr46pY6tUND0KkBqPKmvvytctEGWDNWkl12BWox+p9sLoYGiX NZVVvUDunPZ0WKfbsh90WSJAXEC7YDCyMdTZt4PP9fk/isZCleAIGjHHm4zcaHmzEw+E NNbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1753564102; x=1754168902; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=40G1/nBm7Zgo5Py6nn26HFzmE1y4m1LLN4QZgrVjMPQ=; b=uSll5Bi4gwwbgZAbQZO+nemJSEbzEXoWnSmpQLW2ktfz3PcT2WirvOfZIuSp39eg40 Y4Jin6v4Qhg5h2VN4djCjO3KULZBxzRnmD7H+e2haYAnAQLLfVxDlBxVXGZb+K47qjNy En5gRhUfAESDTU0tCPBtHHG20YHDCAXVJwTP4hkpuyprxPgkHve1r6M0vZOwRzj2DLL8 owtGjgo73DUA/d9zCmi6WFUbhsFWdxCDzkKIv0sKmoCCM9lMQK07eaUCxe6xpCGiYJtF Pp0QVn7Esem8fglNl6nG7ZsGG04UsKDH8ifc0tvUfEDFEOjIhkgcJVJpiMTH1+YkR7op wdHQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxJYoT7TcGK+YyGyUCKAhq9qGIdFHINdQnLNaJLfBT4GbHAXFUo J5sKVAWsazmGt2ronTg4x/kB4X7n9Esbq7ccIqg3wTyXjTMIkd+Ll/pZ8iIS4vBGC4BiWiINxaB QMDUmOyVrYgX98+zDLAWCvXWdVQUwLkizWA== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnct4RosOvwNG9l9N/Q1jO+KgZabAlnlM7t5Hz1g73jUrvMFgdQNWGYyn+laRPNX YmE4NPfddjF/pZglNH+KXFERFr8Zc7COfLpB/OB1nulOUnc3AwFLNM3adWlYr3ijHBP6bViY5OK IIVjwRqldsP0jod3jLsTv84qJOkvQOiR6Qch5TGuveE+s/SEzEcSquq6N8+9xMVyL22jTxWJdjv CTi X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGFxWLFwBe7U+Cn5T9eZTs4zTYSkccL81xXcnfLcfQC2g6PZHFgy3/Uf5rewoFNpe6b/Zeun4XP5Y+PrZMXZt4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:1ed6:b0:60c:461e:7199 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-614f1bb98f0mr5822674a12.9.1753564101417; Sat, 26 Jul 2025 14:08:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20250722035337.2216565-1-dev@lynne.ee> <577d17cb-a056-49c0-bf71-870e00684b37@gmail.com> <8ec2eab1-1a2e-4607-9186-3d55c9335e3a@rothenpieler.org> <9ba27e8b-f890-4b34-a2a0-6245bb050145@rothenpieler.org> In-Reply-To: <9ba27e8b-f890-4b34-a2a0-6245bb050145@rothenpieler.org> From: Kacper Michajlow Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2025 23:07:48 +0200 X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXxOZlS-0leIDRP-EnWgoSaFdSOyDyCSEjkXk9m2lUCrbdQWVVfoNdtEPU0 Message-ID: To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH] web: announce code.ffmpeg.org X-BeenThere: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: FFmpeg development discussions and patches List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org Sender: "ffmpeg-devel" Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Post: On Sat, 26 Jul 2025 at 22:42, Timo Rothenpieler wrote: > > On 7/26/2025 10:24 PM, Kacper Michajlow wrote: > > On Sat, 26 Jul 2025 at 22:14, Timo Rothenpieler wrote: > >> > >> On 7/26/2025 10:01 PM, Derek Buitenhuis wrote: > >>> On 7/26/2025 8:29 PM, Timo Rothenpieler wrote: > >>>> It's still an extended test. You cannot push to it, since it's just a > >>>> mirror. > >>> > >>> That's not what written in the announcement, and the fact it is "still > >>> a test" has not been communicated on this list, to my knowledge. It's > >>> all about as clear as mud... > >>> > >>> It's possible I am the only one dumb enough to miss that fact, but I suspect > >>> (hope) probably not. > >> > >> It's what the whole vote was about, the vote was not "Let's migrate to > >> this", but "Let's put this through a more extended test". > >> So I'd say the list was very much informed about that? > >> > >>>> How do you expect to suddenly switch every last person over from the ML > >>>> to a new tool? > >>> > >>> You do it once, decisively, with no point where it is both dev paths simultaniously. > >>> VideoLAN managed it, and countless companies and other projects have managed it with > >>> no overlap. Many of which I have experienced first hand. It's one thing to slowly > >>> move projects from an org/community over, but having several extant methods of > >>> contributing and reviewing the same repo's code is pretty much the #1 thing that > >>> is avoided. > >> > >> Videolan hat the exact same transitional period, where both the ML and > >> Gitlab were in use for at least a couple months to half a year. > >> > >> vlc-devel is still active to this day, even with the very occasional > >> stray patch still landing there, just not for patches. > >> I expect this to go similar for FFmpeg. > >> At some point there will be a more strong PSA sent out that Patches via > >> ML will no longer receive the same attention. But so far now is not that > >> time. > >> > >> > >>> This isn't really unique to FFmpeg. > >>> > >>>> There's always going to be a transition period where both are in use, > >>>> gradually shifting. > >>> > >>> ... why? It's not necessary, and is a pretty terrible experience for not > >>> much gain except more time for people to argue. > >> > >> How do you intend to get everybody into one boat to move over all at once? > > > > I don't think moving over is something that requires significant > > effort. It just needs clear communication about this. > > The problem is the lack of any kind of governing body who can > communicate it in the first place. > > > Also, I don't think the current ML workflow is very sophisticated on > > ffmpeg-devel, so there are likely not many tools to migrate to the new > > one. > > You'd be surprised about the sophisticated tooling a lot of people have > built around patch wrangling via a mailing-list. > > A lot of people will need to learn an entire new workflow, and I can > absolutely understand that being forced to do so from one day to the > next is very disruptive and off putting. > > > I may be wrong, but ffmpeg development is still within git, so in > > terms of producing patches / updating repositories nothing changes. > > Except the last mile of sending patches for review and handling this > > review. It's a change, but if something is reluctant to do this step > > now, I don't think having more time changes this situation. > > Again, many people have literal decades of experience and tooling set up > to deal with this exact workflow. > Some kind of transitional period is absolutely warranted. > > > It's just my personal opinion and it doesn't reflect anyone else in > > the community. > > I'm completely with you that we desperately need to move forward. > But there just are a lot of people who've been with the project for a > long time who are not comfortable with it or outright reject it. > Do we really want to just leave them behind, and not even give them a > chance to learn new tools? No, of course not. I didn't mean it like that. Though sooner or later the migration will happen, if I understand the current situation correctly. I guess it would be easier if Forgejo would allow creating PRs by email. Though as I understand this is not supported and would have challenges of its own anyway. - Kacper _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".