[FFmpeg-devel] [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[FFmpeg-devel] [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel]

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Hi Everyone

As requested, reposting this, as a new thread

For context please see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VkcAvqV24c
https://lists.ffmpeg.org/archives/list/ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org/thread/PZL3NMBYJJ7RHEJ2NEGE26R2HHXKRQ2S/
Subject: Twitter/X spat on Youtube

Should the delegation, from where this came from, be revoked to FFmpeg social media?
(vote ends in 7 days)

Please reply on ffmpeg-devel with your choice:

[R] revoke access

[K] keep access

thx

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

Avoid a single point of failure, be that a person or equipment.

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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[Rémi Denis-Courmont via ffmpeg-devel]

Le sunnuntai 26. lokakuuta 2025, 17.26.24 Itä-Euroopan normaaliaika Michael 
Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel a écrit :
> Hi Everyone
> 
> As requested, reposting this, as a new thread
> 
> For context please see:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VkcAvqV24c
> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/archives/list/ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org/thread/PZL3NM
> BYJJ7RHEJ2NEGE26R2HHXKRQ2S/ Subject: Twitter/X spat on Youtube

You are totally out of line. You are endorsing the bullying from the YouTuber. 
That makes you a bully as it does anyone who votes R.

-- 
Rémi Denis-Courmont
Tapiolan uusi kaupunki, Uudenmaan entinen Suomen tasavalta



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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[Lynne via ffmpeg-devel]

On 26/10/2025 16:26, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> Hi Everyone
> 
> As requested, reposting this, as a new thread
> 
> For context please see:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VkcAvqV24c
> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/archives/list/ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org/thread/PZL3NMBYJJ7RHEJ2NEGE26R2HHXKRQ2S/
> Subject: Twitter/X spat on Youtube
> 
> Should the delegation, from where this came from, be revoked to FFmpeg social media?
> (vote ends in 7 days)
> 
> Please reply on ffmpeg-devel with your choice:
> 
> [R] revoke access
> 
> [K] keep access

K

I think Kieran has been doing a good job with our X account.
His approach to spreading awareness about what we do may be 
unconventional and confrontational, but its this is how engagement works 
on social networks. And I like engagement - it gives our project a name, 
rather than simply being brick #23 in xkcd #2347.

I looked at the video, and I failed to understand the author's points - 
he said how integration is difficult, and our reply of asking for 
patches was rude. Then he went off on a tangent that VLC releases are 
too far apart, then went on about how we have responsibilities to listen 
to and fix issues that large users of ffmpeg have, and our repeated 
response of asking for patches was rude, even though he has donated and 
built a company's infra using our code?
We're volunteers, and we're absolved of responsibility of our code. As a 
project, we don't have to treat someone as special because they used our 
work or donated. Asking for patches is pretty standard - we even have an 
error code. By looking into issues and writing, you either fix the 
issue, or very quickly gain an appreciation for why the issue has not 
been fixed yet, in a way that goes beyond argument.

Integration can be difficult to someone lacking knowledge of our APIs. 
We have a very low-level API. It's not something that can be improved 
specifically -- it gives API users freedom. From our community, there 
are projects that wrap the API to give users far easier time with 
decoding, seeking, filtering, and, encoding.
There were plans to integrate a high-level API at some point, but 
there's enough of an ecosystem built around our existing API to give 
users a far wider choice in terms of abstractions and languages than an 
official high-level API.
I do agree our project can be a pain to build and integrate - switching 
to meson would solve this as far as my use cases go, as well as many 
other projects using our libraries.

Donations are appreciated as they help keep our infra going, as well as 
very rare trips and hardware when we agree on them, but we as developers 
don't have free access to them, so its difficult for us to gauge their 
impact beyond a number.
An effective way of asking us to fix something is to approach us 
directly. Incidentally, if someone at Twitch or X is reading this, give 
me a call if you'd like to see our AAC encoder improved.
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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[Tomas Härdin via ffmpeg-devel]

sön 2025-10-26 klockan 16:26 +0100 skrev Michael Niedermayer via
ffmpeg-devel:
> Hi Everyone
> 
> As requested, reposting this, as a new thread
> 
> For context please see:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VkcAvqV24c
> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/archives/list/ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org/thread/PZL3NMBYJJ7RHEJ2NEGE26R2HHXKRQ2S/
> Subject: Twitter/X spat on Youtube
> 
> Should the delegation, from where this came from, be revoked to
> FFmpeg social media?
> (vote ends in 7 days)
> 
> Please reply on ffmpeg-devel with your choice:
> 
> [R] revoke access
> 
> [K] keep access

This sounds like a very clear case of someone who should not have
access to the account, so I say [R]evoke.

Giving the impression that the only way to contribute to the project is
by writing code is hurtful to the project. I've made this point before
and I stand by it.

/Tomas
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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel]

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Hi Remi

On Sun, Oct 26, 2025 at 05:51:58PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont via ffmpeg-devel wrote:
> Le sunnuntai 26. lokakuuta 2025, 17.26.24 Itä-Euroopan normaaliaika Michael 
> Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel a écrit :
> > Hi Everyone
> > 
> > As requested, reposting this, as a new thread
> > 
> > For context please see:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VkcAvqV24c
> > https://lists.ffmpeg.org/archives/list/ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org/thread/PZL3NM
> > BYJJ7RHEJ2NEGE26R2HHXKRQ2S/ Subject: Twitter/X spat on Youtube
> 
> You are totally out of line. You are endorsing the bullying from the YouTuber. 
> That makes you a bully as it does anyone who votes R.

The youtuber points to a problem with the use of our official FFmpeg twitter account.
Its not a video bullying someone.

thx

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

No great genius has ever existed without some touch of madness. -- Aristotle

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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel]

On Sun, 26 Oct 2025, 17:33 Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel, <
ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org> wrote:

> Hi Remi
>
> On Sun, Oct 26, 2025 at 05:51:58PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont via
> ffmpeg-devel wrote:
> > Le sunnuntai 26. lokakuuta 2025, 17.26.24 Itä-Euroopan normaaliaika
> Michael
> > Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel a écrit :
> > > Hi Everyone
> > >
> > > As requested, reposting this, as a new thread
> > >
> > > For context please see:
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VkcAvqV24c
> > >
> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/archives/list/ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org/thread/PZL3NM
> > > BYJJ7RHEJ2NEGE26R2HHXKRQ2S/ Subject: Twitter/X spat on Youtube
> >
> > You are totally out of line. You are endorsing the bullying from the
> YouTuber.
> > That makes you a bully as it does anyone who votes R.
>
> The youtuber points to a problem with the use of our official FFmpeg
> twitter account.
> Its not a video bullying someone.
>

Calling the person behind the twitter account a "motherfucker" repeatedly
is not bulling?

Kieran

>
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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[Rémi Denis-Courmont via ffmpeg-devel]

Le sunnuntai 26. lokakuuta 2025, 19.13.45 Itä-Euroopan normaaliaika Michael 
Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel a écrit :
> > You are totally out of line. You are endorsing the bullying from the
> > YouTuber. That makes you a bully as it does anyone who votes R.
> 
> The youtuber points to a problem with the use of our official FFmpeg twitter
> account. Its not a video bullying someone.

I suppose you did not watch the entirety of the video.

Putting a bounty on someone else's is bullying, calling them "motherf****er" 
is bullying (it is also public insult, which is a punishable fellony by my 
local laws).

-- 
Rémi Denis-Courmont
Tapio's place new town, former Finnish Republic of Uusimaa



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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[Rémi Denis-Courmont via ffmpeg-devel]

Tomas' CoC violation has been recorded.

You had been warned.

-- 
德尼-库尔蒙‧雷米
Villeneuve de Tapiola, ex-République finlandaise d´Uusimaa
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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel]

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Hi

On Sun, Oct 26, 2025 at 07:51:50PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont via ffmpeg-devel wrote:
> Tomas' CoC violation has been recorded.
> 
> You had been warned.

I did not plan to vote, but given this abuse of power by the CC, i must vote out of solidarity alone.

[R]evoke

thx

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible. -- Voltaire

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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[James Almer via ffmpeg-devel]

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On 10/26/2025 2:51 PM, Rémi Denis-Courmont via ffmpeg-devel wrote:
> Tomas' CoC violation has been recorded.
> 
> You had been warned.

I'm sorry, what? This makes no sense, so please elaborate.


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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[James Almer via ffmpeg-devel]

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On 10/26/2025 12:26 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> Hi Everyone
> 
> As requested, reposting this, as a new thread
> 
> For context please see:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VkcAvqV24c
> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/archives/list/ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org/thread/PZL3NMBYJJ7RHEJ2NEGE26R2HHXKRQ2S/
> Subject: Twitter/X spat on Youtube
> 
> Should the delegation, from where this came from, be revoked to FFmpeg social media?
> (vote ends in 7 days)
> 
> Please reply on ffmpeg-devel with your choice:
> 
> [R] revoke access
> 
> [K] keep access
> 
> thx

I'm sorry, but we have a real method agreed upon for voting with 
Condorcet, and a call for a vote like this on a Sunday afternoon with 
virtually no discussion whatsoever is not acceptable.


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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel]

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Hi James

On Sun, Oct 26, 2025 at 07:38:39PM -0300, James Almer wrote:
> On 10/26/2025 12:26 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > Hi Everyone
> > 
> > As requested, reposting this, as a new thread
> > 
> > For context please see:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VkcAvqV24c
> > https://lists.ffmpeg.org/archives/list/ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org/thread/PZL3NMBYJJ7RHEJ2NEGE26R2HHXKRQ2S/
> > Subject: Twitter/X spat on Youtube
> > 
> > Should the delegation, from where this came from, be revoked to FFmpeg social media?
> > (vote ends in 7 days)
> > 
> > Please reply on ffmpeg-devel with your choice:
> > 
> > [R] revoke access
> > 
> > [K] keep access
> > 
> > thx
> 
> I'm sorry, but we have a real method agreed upon for voting with Condorcet,

The question about revoking access has 2 options, so a simple vote is equivalent to Condorcet


> and a call for a vote like this on a Sunday afternoon with virtually no
> discussion whatsoever is not acceptable.

its 7 days so theres as many of each weekday as theres a sunday

Multiple people have raised complaints about our social media use over months
At least 3 FFmpeg developers (thats not including myself) and that one youtuber.

Noone did anything effective about that

And what I can do, is to revoke the delegation, or not revoke it.

So I basically asked, should i revoke it
Asking people to discuss before i ask them if i should revoke it would be
kind of wierd

thx

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

When you are offended at any man's fault, turn to yourself and study your
own failings. Then you will forget your anger. -- Epictetus

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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[Steven Liu via ffmpeg-devel]

Lynne via ffmpeg-devel <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org> 于2025年10月27日周一 01:08写道：
>
> On 26/10/2025 16:26, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > Hi Everyone
> >
> > As requested, reposting this, as a new thread
> >
> > For context please see:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VkcAvqV24c
> > https://lists.ffmpeg.org/archives/list/ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org/thread/PZL3NMBYJJ7RHEJ2NEGE26R2HHXKRQ2S/
> > Subject: Twitter/X spat on Youtube
> >
> > Should the delegation, from where this came from, be revoked to FFmpeg social media?
> > (vote ends in 7 days)
> >
> > Please reply on ffmpeg-devel with your choice:
> >
> > [R] revoke access
> >
> > [K] keep access
>
> K
+1
>
> I think Kieran has been doing a good job with our X account.
> His approach to spreading awareness about what we do may be
> unconventional and confrontational, but its this is how engagement works
> on social networks. And I like engagement - it gives our project a name,
> rather than simply being brick #23 in xkcd #2347.
>
> I looked at the video, and I failed to understand the author's points -
> he said how integration is difficult, and our reply of asking for
> patches was rude. Then he went off on a tangent that VLC releases are
> too far apart, then went on about how we have responsibilities to listen
> to and fix issues that large users of ffmpeg have, and our repeated
> response of asking for patches was rude, even though he has donated and
> built a company's infra using our code?
> We're volunteers, and we're absolved of responsibility of our code. As a
> project, we don't have to treat someone as special because they used our
> work or donated. Asking for patches is pretty standard - we even have an
> error code. By looking into issues and writing, you either fix the
> issue, or very quickly gain an appreciation for why the issue has not
> been fixed yet, in a way that goes beyond argument.
>
> Integration can be difficult to someone lacking knowledge of our APIs.
> We have a very low-level API. It's not something that can be improved
> specifically -- it gives API users freedom. From our community, there
> are projects that wrap the API to give users far easier time with
> decoding, seeking, filtering, and, encoding.
> There were plans to integrate a high-level API at some point, but
> there's enough of an ecosystem built around our existing API to give
> users a far wider choice in terms of abstractions and languages than an
> official high-level API.
> I do agree our project can be a pain to build and integrate - switching
> to meson would solve this as far as my use cases go, as well as many
> other projects using our libraries.
>
> Donations are appreciated as they help keep our infra going, as well as
> very rare trips and hardware when we agree on them, but we as developers
> don't have free access to them, so its difficult for us to gauge their
> impact beyond a number.
> An effective way of asking us to fix something is to approach us
> directly. Incidentally, if someone at Twitch or X is reading this, give
> me a call if you'd like to see our AAC encoder improved.
> _______________________________________________
> ffmpeg-devel mailing list -- ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to ffmpeg-devel-leave@ffmpeg.org
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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[Rémi Denis-Courmont via ffmpeg-devel]

Le 27 octobre 2025 00:34:52 GMT+02:00, James Almer via ffmpeg-devel <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org> a écrit :
>On 10/26/2025 2:51 PM, Rémi Denis-Courmont via ffmpeg-devel wrote:
>> Tomas' CoC violation has been recorded.
>> 
>> You had been warned.
>
>I'm sorry, what? This makes no sense, so please elaborate.

I already warned not to vote for this since (as you too pointed out later on) this is not an appropriate  process.

But the real conduct problem here is bullying. The video that is used as justification is literally calling one of our media rep repeatedly a "motherfucker", and putting a bounty on cancelling them.

The video author also doubled down on their insults and threats in a statement to the CC a few hours ago.

I admit that Tomas was perhaps unaware of the background but at the same time, the information was available to him, and yet he too vehemently voted in favour of that bullying.
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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[Rémi Denis-Courmont via ffmpeg-devel]

I am being attacked by a bunch of no-lifes on X who somehow ended up mistaking me for the media team, even though:
- I explicitly criticised some of the team actions.
- I very obviously do not even use X (and never have).

Nevertheless Tomas is not responsible for that idiotic nonsense in any way. That was evidently a rushed overreaction on my part, sorry for that.

On that note, this probably will not be much of a surprise, but I do not intend to nominate myself for the CC in 2026.
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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel]

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Hi Lynne

On Sun, Oct 26, 2025 at 05:50:28PM +0100, Lynne via ffmpeg-devel wrote:
[...]

> I looked at the video, and I failed to understand the author's points - he

The authors point is that multiple FFmpeg supporters, who have NOT said bad things
about FFmpeg at all, some who donated to FFmpeg, where pulled into agressive
confrontational arguments by the official FFmpeg account.

Basically the official ffmpeg account is harrasing random supporters. Whenever
the person behind feels an itch to start an argument with someone.

The complaint is not about unconventional or confrontational tone
towards people being incompetent
towards people having spoken badly about ffmpeg or
towards some corporation

its about confrontational action towards ffmpeg supporters, when they
had an issue with vlc or when "ffmpeg" happened to half misread
what they said.
Or when they cause an itch by being associated with C++, type script or other

If vlc wants to confront people who complain about vlc, then vlc should
use their own account for that. Its not our buisness to do that.

Obviously confronting the java script community or c++ or whetevar is just
inappropriate, just why would we, whats the sense of that?

And we should not be confrontational towards our supporters, we simply
should not be. Thats just not appropriate.

If someone wants to do these things, nothing stops them from doing so with their
own personal twitter account. But not the official FFmpeg account

or maybe to litterally quote one part of the video:

"he cares way more about being funny on twitter than representing the project in a good light"

I think this hits one of the core parts of this.
These post are funny (in some sense) and they lead to engagement, but at the same
time they are damaging FFmpegs reputation

I dont think we should trade our reputation for being funny

Also the followers we get from this are shallow, these followers are here for the funny
posts, not for FFmpeg

thx

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

You can kill me, but you cannot change the truth.

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[FFmpeg-devel] Re: [POLL][VOTE] Revoke social media delegation

[Vittorio Giovara via ffmpeg-devel]

On Sun, Oct 26, 2025 at 4:43 PM Michael Niedermayer via ffmpeg-devel <
ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org> wrote:

> Hi Everyone
>
> As requested, reposting this, as a new thread
>
> For context please see:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VkcAvqV24c
>
> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/archives/list/ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org/thread/PZL3NMBYJJ7RHEJ2NEGE26R2HHXKRQ2S/
> Subject: Twitter/X spat on Youtube
>
> Should the delegation, from where this came from, be revoked to FFmpeg
> social media?
> (vote ends in 7 days)
>
> Please reply on ffmpeg-devel with your choice:
>
> [R] revoke access
>
> [K] keep access
>

Add this personal vendetta towards the person who's running the show on
twitter to the pile of reasons of why you should step down from the project.
-- 
Vittorio
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