Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization

[Vittorio Giovara <vittorio.giovara@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 4:24 PM Soft Works <
softworkz-at-hotmail.com@ffmpeg.org> wrote:

> > You are skewing the discuscussion and attacking me while constructing
> > a
> > conspiracy theory that is not true (I don't want to gain any control
> > at
> > all, I want a community-decided process for most of the problems I
> > raised)
> > and contracting yourself while at at it (the loudest by length and
> > number
> > of mails on the subject is definitely not me).
>
> That's right, but you have achieved a top ranking in dirtiness and tone.
> Your messages do not even indicate the tiniest bit of seeking for agreement
> and consensus in a positive and constructive way. You are trying to
> increase pressure to achieve goals and you are even openly threatening to
> continue this kind of pressure if things don't go like you want them to go.
>

And I think you have achieved a top ranking in not knowing what you're
talking about. You admitted not having a full picture and not being there
for most of the incidents I raised, and yet you're here spewing judgment
and making allegations that were never in the original messages. And then
you later make pontifications about how the discussion should be
constructive and positive, when you yourself made the conversation more
difficult.

And to be clear I was not seeking any agreement, I was merely trying *once
again* to explain to Micheal why people are tired of his behavior and that
just disagreeing with the leadership of the project does not directly mean
"attacking" Micheal.

My last sentence wasn't directed to you specifically but exactly the way I
> said it. I don't find that people who are forming an angry mob and try to
> execute pressure to achieve their goals are suitable for taking a
> responsible position in such a project.
>

I don't find that people in power who agree to transitioning to a different
governance model and change their mind because things aren't as rosy as
they expected should go away unscathed either. At least I'm glad people's
true colors are manifest now.


> I can imagine that things happened which made you angry and I'm sure you
> have valid points and reasonings and - as always in life - things are never
> black and white and mistakes are made on all sides.
>

This is pure whataboutism, which is really unhelpful.


> But your approach with these kinds of messages doesn't lead anywhere. I'm
> not sure whether you've missed it, but Michael has already made very clear
> that what you are aiming for (handing over project control) is not going to
> happen, so that would be something to accommodate first before continuing a
> (constructive and positive) discussion about community involvement.
>

I mean, your approach of using code as a mockery instead of actual words is
not leading anywhere either. I appreciate you took the time now to explain
your (largely uninformed) view, maybe start with that next time.

For sure, I wish a constructive and positive discussion could happen, in
fact I advertised a community meet happening at Fosdem and invited Micheal
to it. But it's a two way process, compromises need to happen on both
sides, and Micheal's position has been more and more enfranchised in being
the victim, while it's just a consequence of events he set in motion (for
the most part).


> There doesn't exist any right for a "community" to take ownership of a
> project. That's at the sole discretion of the person who owns it. You
> should try to imagine that you would have led and factually owned a project
> for more than 20 years and eventually, some people come around, saying you
> should give up your ownership and let other people make the decisions while
> you'd just continue as a contributor.


In a company scenario, there is a board of directors which may remove the
CEO at any time. When the whole board of most active contributors all agree
that the project leader is not acting in the benefit of the community,
maybe it would be high time for an examination of conscience.
-- 
Vittorio
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