On Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 02:59:25AM +0100, Niklas Haas wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 21:04:46 +0100 Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc> wrote:
> > Hi Niklas
> > 
> > On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 01:43:19PM +0100, Niklas Haas wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > > 
> > > As part of my ongoing swscale rewrite, we have both the opportunity and the
> > > need to make a central decision about how to apply rounding and/or dithering.
> > > 
> > > Some particular cases I want to point out and gather feedback on include:
> > > 
> > 
> > all IMHO:
> > 
> > 
> > > 1. Should we dither and/or accurately round when scaling up full range
> > >    content? For example, say you are converting from full-range rgb24 to
> > 
> > by default, yes
> > 
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > 2. At what bit depth does dithering become negligible? For context, the
> > 
> > I think we should consistently always apply it by default
> > 
> > also especially if someone does work with lets say 32bit, that person has
> > some strange requirements already and direct human vison may not be it.
> > 
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > 3. Should we dither per-channel after conversion from grayscale to RGB? For
> > 
> > in general, yes
> > 
> > 
> > [...]
> > > 
> > > 3. What should we make of the SWS_ACCURATE_RND and SWS_BITEXACT flags? I am
> > >    personally thinking that SWS_BITEXACT should become a no-op flag, with
> > >    bit exact output being the default behavior of all new implementations.
> > >    But What about SWS_ACCURATE_RND?
> > > 
> > >    I am thinking that SWS_ACCURATE_RND should essentially be the switch that
> > >    toggles our preferred resolution of question 1. So in other words, with
> > >    SWS_ACCURATE_RND specified, full range upconversions should go through an
> > >    accurate dither pass, while being relaxed to the simple (x << 2) | (x >> 6)
> > >    upconversion in the absence of this flag.
> > > 
> > >    How should this flag relate to question 2? With the flag specified, I am
> > >    thinking that we should also force dithering even at 16 bit depth, and
> > >    skip dithering in this case only in the flag's absence. If so, what
> > >    bit depth should the cutoff threshold be, for when to skip accurate
> > >    dithering? I am thinking to simply use the 12/14 bit SDR/HDR threshold as
> > >    appropriate for the content type.
> > > 
> > > This would lead to the following conversions, as an illustration:
> > > 
> > > SWS_ACCURATE_RND specified:
> > > 
> > > - rgb24 -> yuv420p10:       full dithering
> > > - rgb24 -> yuv420p12:       full dithering
> > > - rgb24 -> rgb30:           full dithering
> > > - rgb24 -> rgba64:          full dithering
> > > - yuva444p -> yuva444p10:   scale YUV, dither alpha
> > > - yuva444p14 -> yuva444p16: scale YUV, dither alpha
> > > - yuv444p10 -> yuv444p14:   left shift, no dithering needed
> > > 
> > > SWS_ACCURATE_RND absent:
> > > 
> > > - rgb24 -> yuv420p10:       full dithering
> > > - rgb24 -> yuv420p12:       truncate if SDR, full dithering if HDR
> > > - rgb24 -> rgb30:           truncate
> > > - rgb24 -> rgba64:          truncate
> > > - yuva444p -> yuva444p10:   left shift YUV, truncate alpha
> > > - yuva444p14 -> yuva444p16: left shift YUV, truncate alpha
> > > 
> > > Does this seem reasonable?
> > 
> > IMHO in the accurate mode, dither should always be on
> > its also easier to understand
> 
> That seems reasonable. It does mean some conversions are necessarily going
> to get slower than the status quo.
> 
> > 
> > but there could be a flag for vissual percetion
> > 
> > SWS_VISSUAL_PERCEPTION (or some better name)
> > some flag that uses less accurate and faster operations when their
> > effect is expected to be vissually impercivable
> 
> This could be the behavior of SWS_DITHER_AUTO, which is not clearly defined
> either way.
> 
> In a much earlier thread we discussed the idea of adding quality "presets",
> which seems like a good thing to consider as well.
> 
> How about this proposal?
> 
> 1. SWS_ACCURATE_RND is added to the default flags.
> 2. When SWS_ACCURATE_RND is absent, the implementation may truncate instead
>    of rounding; to enable e.g. fast alpha upconversions.
> 3. SWS_DITHER_AUTO implies dithering only when the result is visually needed,
>    and skips dithering otherwise
> 4. When a specific dither mode is requested, dithering is always performed,
>    at whatever bit depth.

sure, sounds reasonable and simple to understand

thx

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and
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