Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] New swscale internal design prototype

[Niklas Haas <ffmpeg@haasn.xyz>]

On Sun, 09 Mar 2025 17:57:48 -0700 Rémi Denis-Courmont <remi@remlab.net> wrote:
>
>
> Le 9 mars 2025 12:57:47 GMT-07:00, Niklas Haas <ffmpeg@haasn.xyz> a écrit :
> >On Sun, 09 Mar 2025 11:18:04 -0700 Rémi Denis-Courmont <remi@remlab.net> wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Le 8 mars 2025 14:53:42 GMT-08:00, Niklas Haas <ffmpeg@haasn.xyz> a écrit :
> >> >https://github.com/haasn/FFmpeg/blob/swscale3/doc/swscale-v2.txt
> >>
> >> >I have spent the past week or so ironing
> >> >I wanted to post it here to gather some feedback on the approach. Where does
> >> >it fall on the "madness" scale? Is the new operations and optimizer design
> >> >comprehensible? Am I trying too hard to reinvent compilers? Are there any
> >> >platforms where the high number of function calls per frame would be
> >> >probitively expensive? What are the thoughts on the float-first approach? See
> >> >also the list of limitations and improvement ideas at the bottom of my design
> >> >document.
> >>
> >> Using floats internally may be fine if there's (almost) never any spillage, but that necessarily implies custom calling conventions. And won't work with as many as 32 pixels. On RVV 128-bit, you'd have only 4 vectors. On Arm NEON, it would be even worse as scalars/constants need to be stored in vectors as well.
> >
> >I think that a custom calling convention is not as unreasonable as it may sound,
> >and will actually be easier to implement than the standard calling convention
> >since functions will not have to deal with pixel load/store, nor will there be
> >any need for "fused" versions of operations (whose only purpose is to avoid
> >the roundtrip through L1).
> >
> >The pixel chunk size is easily changed; it is a compile time constant and there
> >are no strict requirements on it. If RISC-V (or any other platform) struggles
> >with storing 32 floats in vector registers, we could go down to 16 (or even 8);
> >the number 32 was merely chosen by benchmarking and not through any careful
> >design consideration.
>
> It can't be a compile time constant on RVV nor (if it's ever introduced) SVE because they are scalable. I doubt that a compile-time constant will work well across all variants of x86 as well, but not that I'd know.

It's my understanding that on existing RVV implementations, the number of
cycles needed to execute an m4/m2 operation is roughly 4x/2x the cost of
an equivalent m1 operation.

If this continues to be the case, the underlying VLEN of the implementation
should not matter much, even with a compile time constant chunk size, as long
as it does not greatly exceed 512.

That said, it's indeed possible that on RISC-V we may be better off with a
dynamic chunk size. I will hold off on that judgement until we have numbers.

> >Do you have access to anything with decent RVV F32 support that we could use
> >for testing? It's my understanding that existing RVV implementations have been
> >rather primitive.
>
> Float is quite okay on RVV. It is faster than integers on some lavc audio loops already.
>
> That said, I only have access to TH-C908 (128-bit) and  ST-X60 (256-bit), as before, and I haven't been contacted to get access anything better. The X60 is used on FATE.

I saw that recent versions of both GCC and clang are quite capable of generating
autovectorized RVV code, so maybe we could just give it a try to see where
the performance figures land with the existing C templates.

> _______________________________________________
> ffmpeg-devel mailing list
> ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
>
> To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email
> ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
_______________________________________________
ffmpeg-devel mailing list
ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel

To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email
ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".