[FFmpeg-devel] CC statement on alleged insults against the GSoC student et al

[FFmpeg-devel] CC statement on alleged insults against the GSoC student et al

[Marth64]

Hello,

The FFmpeg Community Committee (CC) has received a complaint regarding
alleged insults from Kieran against Yigithan and Michael.

After careful review, the CC did not find any recent comments from
Kieran that would constitute an insult against either of the alleged
targets. The CC did not even find any criticism of Yigithan from
Kieran or anyone else. Kieran did negatively criticise Michael for
changing the topic of the discussion from GSoC to an old inflammatory
subject. Leaving out subjective value judgements, the CC finds that
Kieran’s claim was essentially valid.

Kieran then also negatively criticised the project’s software
development practices. The CC believes that criticism ought to be
permissible as long as it is not insulting, defamatory, threatening,
or unnecessarily derisive or inflammatory. Kieran’s opinions are
ostensibly shared by many active FFmpeg contributors, and do not seem
to qualify as insults.

Nevertheless, the CC does issue a warning regarding unnecessarily
offensive recent comments by Kieran on other topics, as well as for
initially failing to provide background and context regarding Paul’s
action on IRC.

On that note, everybody, please keep in mind that not all FFmpeg-devel
subscribers and archive readers actively follow #ffmpeg-devel.

On behalf of the CC,
Best regards,
Marth64
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] CC statement on alleged insults against the GSoC student et al

[Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel]

>
> Nevertheless, the CC does issue a warning regarding unnecessarily
> offensive recent comments by Kieran on other topics, as well as for
> initially failing to provide background and context regarding Paul’s
> action on IRC.
>

Hi CC,

What comments are these? This is very vague as to what I've done.

Kieran

>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] CC statement on alleged insults against the GSoC student et al

[Rémi Denis-Courmont]

Le 4 mars 2025 17:56:20 GMT+02:00, Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org> a écrit :
>>
>> Nevertheless, the CC does issue a warning regarding unnecessarily
>> offensive recent comments by Kieran on other topics, as well as for
>> initially failing to provide background and context regarding Paul’s
>> action on IRC.
>>
>
>Hi CC,
>
>What comments are these? This is very vague as to what I've done.

Hmm, so they were recent when this was drafted, and they are not so recent now and we are sorry for being slow.

This all goes back to the GSoC thread.

Br,
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] CC statement on alleged insults against the GSoC student et al

[Michael Niedermayer]

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Hi Marth64

first, thanks for publically explaining the decission
this allows me to comment.

On Tue, Mar 04, 2025 at 09:35:09AM -0600, Marth64 wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> The FFmpeg Community Committee (CC) has received a complaint regarding
> alleged insults from Kieran against Yigithan and Michael.
> 
> After careful review, the CC did not find any recent comments from
> Kieran that would constitute an insult against either of the alleged
> targets. The CC did not even find any criticism of Yigithan from
> Kieran or anyone else. Kieran did negatively criticise Michael for


Lets first quote what was said:

Yiğithan Yiğit said:
> I want to give some feedback before GSoC’25 as GSoC’24 participant.
> I speak for myself but I know some of other colleagues are sharing
> similar thoughts with me.

> First of all community has incredible talented people and I am not
> even single percent of those people. However I tried my best during
> the qualification stage and after that. My main problem was finding
> answer's inside a huge codebase. I might come stupid ideas, bad
> implementations but to be honest when I asked about something in IRC
> I couldn’t get any answers, even in my volumedetect(qual patch)
> I couldn’t get a proper review from community.

This is a polite and honest critique, pointing at true problems in FFmpeg
people not reviewing patches, people not replying to students


Kierans reply later refered back to this:
> OMG a GSoC contributor is complaining about how hard the contribution

This reply is not appropriate from an FFmpeg developer to a gsoc contributor
who reported issues he found
Its disencouranging, its belitteling and it may even violate GSoC guildlines
or at least the vibe and spirit of GSoC

Also see:
https://google.github.io/gsocguides/mentor/best-practices

thx

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

I have never wished to cater to the crowd; for what I know they do not
approve, and what they approve I do not know. -- Epicurus

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] CC statement on alleged insults against the GSoC student et al

[Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel]

>
> Kierans reply later refered back to this:
> > OMG a GSoC contributor is complaining about how hard the contribution
>

That's a selective quotation of an incomplete sentence.

Kieran

>
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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] CC statement on alleged insults against the GSoC student et al

[Michael Niedermayer]

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Hi Marth64

2nd mail to keep this clean and readable

On Tue, Mar 04, 2025 at 09:35:09AM -0600, Marth64 wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> The FFmpeg Community Committee (CC) has received a complaint regarding
> alleged insults from Kieran against Yigithan and Michael.
> 
> After careful review, the CC did not find any recent comments from
> Kieran that would constitute an insult against either of the alleged
> targets. The CC did not even find any criticism of Yigithan from
> Kieran or anyone else. Kieran did negatively criticise Michael for

In Kerans reply:
> and the usual defence of
> your buddies.

Is insulting to the people it refers to (whoever that may be).
It also implies repeated  wrong doing on my side.

This is not a criticism of a clearly defined action (that one could
proof true or false). It simply is an ad hominem

why is the CC ignoring this ?


thx

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision
of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet
notwithstanding go out to meet it. -- Thucydides

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Re: [FFmpeg-devel] CC statement on alleged insults against the GSoC student et al

[Marth64]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your thoughts.

CC did not ignore. One can find a fault in that thread no matter which
lens it is looked under. Our conclusion is aimed to be balanced.
Objectively, Kieran's point was valid - the topic started with focus
on the complaint of our environment having a high learning ramp with
sometimes limited support, then it did evolve into out of context
concerns. While the delivery was not ideal as you pointed out, Kieran
cannot be singled out or faulted for this. We did issue a warning to
Kieran at the end of the statement, but the opportunity for cordial
delivery of tough messages is broader than just Kieran or this thread.
In fact, it is rampant in the community and will not improve
overnight.

We will continue to assess other complaints in our docket.

Best,
Marth64
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