From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (ffbox0-bg.ffmpeg.org [79.124.17.100]) by master.gitmailbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 517414B864 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 2025 18:40:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.1.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DBFD68C0A8; Thu, 30 Jan 2025 20:40:31 +0200 (EET) Received: from relay8-d.mail.gandi.net (relay8-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.201]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF5E668BE1C; Thu, 30 Jan 2025 20:40:19 +0200 (EET) Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D22B644436; Thu, 30 Jan 2025 18:40:18 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=niedermayer.cc; s=gm1; t=1738262419; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=OFtEXUVwtcXuMCBmLuslKcqoMDCSH2GZFEHGPmX6yR4=; b=Myk9Z3PCp9BQ1W+AK1+Qbcbp5mSdkoKIOBUammK46IwawJUk4BWIbvZnQzlAgkS/xxvoC/ jOsVmjFU+nq4R0hNVBkZyjayFFvW4O47EY3XvQVEFCj2pbyHUtE71BNP/V2+bjDz7Y7pCk u9axBdznlp8JFL/MZAovJZPDut8pJSF3vgSBhE0C+x2eZFK3T/2jC6Iuue0Z59MvBnFQcn sziRgzk5R0WHvWxEKmzwrxv5pxBn9hUUt75i5b3h40CqFoGModJknIoracceVMTQH7Dzh1 x6p8aHEMyMTUvpzrG1mIP/PEDUZ13k0cswc4gW8R0AaDgDMJj2QawFppp9tDFA== Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 19:40:18 +0100 From: Michael Niedermayer To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches , cc@ffmpeg.org Message-ID: <20250130184018.GD4991@pb2> References: <20250128022117.GT4991@pb2> <79E2A15A-F7FD-4F05-AEDA-58633633B512@gmail.com> <20250129190129.GA4991@pb2> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-GND-State: clean X-GND-Score: -70 X-GND-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefvddrtddtgdeiheeiucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuifetpfffkfdpucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddunecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenfghrlhcuvffnffculdeftddmnecujfgurhepfffhvffukfhfgggtuggjsehgtderredttdejnecuhfhrohhmpefoihgthhgrvghlucfpihgvuggvrhhmrgihvghruceomhhitghhrggvlhesnhhivgguvghrmhgrhigvrhdrtggtqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeelkeeggfffiedufeejueffjeduhedttdduledtheevveevtdeiueelhfdtuedtkeenucfkphepgedurdeiiedrieejrdduudefnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehinhgvthepgedurdeiiedrieejrdduudefpdhhvghloheplhhotggrlhhhohhsthdpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmihgthhgrvghlsehnihgvuggvrhhmrgihvghrrdgttgdpnhgspghrtghpthhtohepvddprhgtphhtthhopehffhhmphgvghdquggvvhgvlhesfhhfmhhpvghgrdhorhhgpdhrtghpthhtoheptggtsehffhhmphgvghdrohhrgh X-GND-Sasl: michael@niedermayer.cc Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] GSoC 2025 X-BeenThere: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: FFmpeg development discussions and patches List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4355845778218239353==" Errors-To: ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org Sender: "ffmpeg-devel" Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Post: --===============4355845778218239353== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="AS9iKGoyP1QfLHWy" Content-Disposition: inline --AS9iKGoyP1QfLHWy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi CC As i was speaking of infighting this reply seems to provide a good example of the problem FFmpeg has. But also it is insulting toward Yigithan as well as me. As well as really misrepresenting what my mail said. thx On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 07:31:45PM +0000, Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel wr= ote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 7:01=E2=80=AFPM Michael Niedermayer > wrote: > > > > Hi Yigithan > > > > Its good that you bring these issues up. > > Discussing about them is a step towards solving them > > > > see my coments inline below > > > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 06:51:40PM +0300, Yigithan Yigit wrote: > > > Hi Michael, > > > > > > I want to give some feedback before GSoC=E2=80=9925 as GSoC=E2=80=992= 4 participant. I speak for myself but I know some of other colleagues are s= haring similar thoughts with me. > > > > > > First of all community has incredible talented people and I am not ev= en single percent of those people. However I tried my best during the quali= fication stage and after that. My main problem was finding answer's inside = a huge codebase. I might come stupid ideas, bad implementations but to be h= onest when I asked about something in IRC I couldn=E2=80=99t get any answer= s, even in my volumedetect(qual patch) I couldn=E2=80=99t get a proper revi= ew from community. > > > > > > > > Guessing contributors are mostly the passionate driven. I find that p= assion beginning but lost day by day. I tried to share similar thought duri= ng VDD, they told me this is normal and happening. Which shouldn=E2=80=99t = be in my opinion. If project wants to > > > > yes, i also agree that this should not happen > > > > > > > newcomers or continuous contributors people should be more welcoming= =2E I understand you can=E2=80=99t force people to review some patches but = still there are some parts needed to be change, I can=E2=80=99t say specifi= cally which parts but they should be changed. > > > > Its a complex problem > > > > The average age of developers is becoming older, (meaning there are few= er new developers joining than in the past) > > > > many now are payed by companies to do specific work for a company. > > Meaning they have less time to do what the community and FFmpeg needs > > as they spend time to do what the company needs > > I think people should attempt to shift payed feature implementation tow= ards payed maintaince and > > reviewing patches, picking up an area and maintaining it as their day j= ob > > > > What is impotant is to have maintainers for every part of the codebase. > > But to have a passionate and dedicated maintainer, often either he needs > > to have authority or needs to be paid. > > > > Both we fail at. AND also it needs the mindset that maintainers are nee= ded. > > > > For the payment, > > for example carl, who took care of the bug tracker for years (something= truly important) > > should have been hired by some company to continue that work, it would = have > > made economic sense to these companies actually. > > > > Another example for Payment is the souvereign tech fund. last year we f= or the > > first time got accepted BUT first it was really hard to find developers= who > > where willing to agree to do the work. And then there was a huge amount= of > > infighting. > > > > The problem is there is not a mindset of "this makes sense", "lets do i= t" but > > much more a mindset of bickering on whatevr the other did. > > > > Also various company executives could have encouranged the employees to= do > > maintaince work for FFmpeg STF. Would have cost them 0, would have made= a > > huge difference in how many people would have been available! > > > > And about authority. > > We have some developers who want to have a say in everything. That just= takes > > all passion out for some people. I also think this was a big factor why= Paul forked > > > > So IMO, the mindset of the FFmpeg team needs to change. If one sees ano= ther > > working on something lets say a booth or STF, or anything code related = or > > anything code unrelated the idea would be to be supportive. <--- This w= ould help I belive > > > > The other change would be to draw clear lines and clearly give authorit= y to > > people in their area so they have some borders that shield them from th= ings > > that take their passion away. Which then makes them stop maintaining th= e code > > and that then takes the passion of contributors away. > > > > Or maybe to put this another way. Try to have exactly 1 cook in every k= itchen > > If you intend to eat the resulting food. >=20 > OMG a GSoC student is complaining about how hard the contribution > process is and you've turned it into "yet another Michael wall of > text" that has nothing to do with the topic but instead yet another > incoherent airing of your current grievances and the usual defence of > your buddies. >=20 [...] -- Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB Old school: Use the lowest level language in which you can solve the problem conveniently. New school: Use the highest level language in which the latest supercomputer can solve the problem without the user falling asleep waiting. --AS9iKGoyP1QfLHWy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABEKAB0WIQSf8hKLFH72cwut8TNhHseHBAsPqwUCZ5vHiAAKCRBhHseHBAsP qzBGAJwJ6SIIyHkhGV9JuZWca+hIkyTiMACghSJQKD4XOMXCzEnAzUbz4Tr5QEs= =p8uz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --AS9iKGoyP1QfLHWy-- --===============4355845778218239353== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe". --===============4355845778218239353==--