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From: Niklas Haas <ffmpeg@haasn.xyz>
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org>
Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2025 16:16:29 +0100
Message-ID: <20250129161629.GB159671@haasn.xyz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Z5ohiBnyYwCsPrxl@phare.normalesup.org>

On Wed, 29 Jan 2025 13:39:36 +0100 Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> wrote:
> Zhao Zhili (12025-01-29):
> > I don’t stay long enough to know the history, but I don’t think delving into history
> > helps the current situation. Let's talk less about history and hatred to avoid creating
> > a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>
> “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
>
> The situation affecting the project right now is extremely similar to
> the events of ~15 years ago that led to a fork and harmed the project
> immensely.
>
> We are seeing the same strategy deployed. If we want to avoid the same
> harm happening, we need to realize how it happened the first time.

I think the most important crux of the problem is a fundamental disagreement
between Michael and the "community" (for lack of a better term) about the role
of the CC (and by extension, the GA). Michael is under the impression that they
(should) serve a mere advisory role, with Michael himself having final say in
matters both technical and non-technical. The "community", on the other hand,
seems to be under the impression that the CC/GA is supposed to have the final
say.

I think that resolving this core dispute is the only way to quiet these non-stop
discussions, either by making it clear that the CC, TC and GA are merely advisory
with no actual power, or by Michael stepping down and handing control over
ffmpeg.org to the GA (via vote of new root admin).

I am not going to comment on which outcome is better for the long-term success
of the project, but I will point out that formally abolishing the GA as a ruling
entity is likely to be the tipping point that leads to another fork/schism.

I think that in summary, Michael is currently in the difficult position of which
he would rather lose - control over the FFmpeg name, or the developers that make
up the project.

And until a clear decision is made, the nonstop discussions will probably
continue indefinitely, amidst a backdrop of increasing hostility and dwindling
community numbers.

>
> Regards,
>
> --
>   Nicolas George
> _______________________________________________
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  reply	other threads:[~2025-01-29 15:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 113+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20250102141731.GR4991@pb2>
     [not found] ` <20250102163807.GB7285@haasn.xyz>
     [not found]   ` <20250114170615.GD4991@pb2>
     [not found]     ` <eafdd773-0055-4619-b1e2-bf4d4266ee4e@gmail.com>
     [not found]       ` <20250117173914.GN4991@pb2>
     [not found]         ` <f5f57e16-8f34-4836-9b46-f31a753dd990@gmail.com>
2025-01-20  1:28           ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-01-20  6:21             ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
2025-01-20 15:45 ` Soft Works
2025-01-20 16:15   ` Marth64
2025-01-20 16:38     ` Marth64
2025-01-21  0:36       ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-01-24 19:36         ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
2025-01-24 21:02           ` Nicolas George
2025-01-25  6:21             ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
2025-01-25  7:55           ` Vittorio Giovara
2025-01-25 20:26           ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-01-25 21:08             ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
2025-01-25 21:39             ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
2025-01-25 22:13               ` Marth64
2025-01-25 23:23               ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
2025-01-25 22:40             ` Marth64
2025-01-26 15:06               ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-01-26 15:11                 ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
2025-01-26 16:35                 ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
2025-01-26 17:34                   ` Marth64
2025-01-26 18:07                     ` Marth64
2025-01-26 18:43                       ` Gyan Doshi
2025-01-26 18:51                         ` Marth64
2025-01-26 19:17                     ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-01-26 19:39                       ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
2025-01-26 20:40                         ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
2025-01-26 20:51                           ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
2025-01-26 21:20                             ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
2025-01-26 22:01                             ` Marth64
2025-01-28 18:21                               ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-01-29  6:40                                 ` Zhao Zhili
2025-01-29 12:39                                   ` Nicolas George
2025-01-29 15:16                                     ` Niklas Haas [this message]
2025-01-29 16:12                                       ` compn
2025-01-29 16:22                                         ` Vittorio Giovara
2025-01-29 17:02                                         ` Soft Works
2025-01-29 17:41                                           ` Marth64
2025-01-29 18:26                                             ` Marth64
2025-01-29 19:36                                               ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
2025-01-29 20:20                                                 ` Marth64
2025-01-29 20:54                                                   ` Nicolas George
2025-01-29 21:08                                                     ` Marth64
2025-01-29 21:45                                                       ` Nicolas George
2025-01-30  6:12                                                         ` Vittorio Giovara
2025-01-30  8:02                                                           ` Nicolas George
2025-01-30  9:45                                                             ` Vittorio Giovara
2025-01-31  0:03                                                               ` Soft Works
2025-01-31  0:14                                                                 ` Vittorio Giovara
2025-02-01 13:50                                                 ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-01-29 20:04                                         ` Ronald S. Bultje
2025-01-29 21:27                                         ` Niklas Haas
2025-01-29 21:39                                           ` Nicolas George
2025-02-01 14:15                                           ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-01-29 20:51                                       ` Nicolas George
2025-01-29 21:21                                         ` Niklas Haas
2025-01-29 21:36                                           ` Nicolas George
2025-01-30  6:08                                             ` Vittorio Giovara
2025-01-29 23:26                                           ` Soft Works
2025-01-30  6:35                                             ` Vittorio Giovara
2025-01-30 23:21                                               ` Soft Works
2025-01-31  0:14                                                 ` Vittorio Giovara
2025-01-31  1:07                                                   ` Soft Works
2025-01-30  9:50                                           ` Vittorio Giovara
2025-02-01 14:46                                           ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-02-01 14:48                                             ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
2025-02-01 15:03                                               ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-02-01 16:10                                                 ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
2025-02-01 15:11                                             ` James Almer
     [not found]                                               ` <dffa122a-f13a-4e95-8210-9053a6832e6a@e-blokos.com>
2025-02-01 16:03                                                 ` James Almer
2025-02-01 20:18                                               ` Nicolas George
2025-02-01 13:44                                       ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-02-01 20:20                                         ` Nicolas George
2025-02-01 21:00                                           ` Soft Works
2025-01-29  9:45                                 ` Vittorio Giovara
2025-01-29 10:32                                   ` Soft Works
2025-01-29 10:51                                     ` Vittorio Giovara
2025-01-29 11:52                                       ` Soft Works
2025-01-29 14:38                                         ` Vittorio Giovara
2025-01-29 15:24                                           ` Soft Works
2025-01-29 16:24                                             ` Vittorio Giovara
2025-01-29 16:44                                               ` Soft Works
2025-01-30  8:02                                         ` Tobias Rapp
2025-01-29 16:58                                     ` Marth64
2025-01-29 17:06                                       ` Soft Works
2025-01-29 17:14                                         ` Marth64
2025-01-29 17:22                                           ` Soft Works
2025-01-29 17:38                                             ` Vittorio Giovara
2025-01-29 18:13                                             ` Soft Works
2025-01-29 18:23                                               ` Marth64
2025-01-29 17:15                                       ` Soft Works
2025-01-26 21:24                         ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-01-26 21:41                           ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
2025-01-27  9:03                           ` Vittorio Giovara
2025-01-20 17:44     ` Soft Works
2025-01-20 18:14       ` Gyan Doshi
2025-01-20 21:04         ` Nicolas George
2025-01-21  0:41         ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-01-21  6:52           ` Soft Works
2025-01-25 18:04             ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-01-24 20:01         ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
2025-01-20 17:59     ` Nicolas George
2025-01-20 18:18       ` Marth64
2025-01-20 18:46         ` Soft Works
2025-01-20 20:57         ` Nicolas George
2025-01-20 21:08           ` Marth64
2025-01-20 22:20             ` Marth64
2025-01-20 18:23       ` Marth64
2025-01-20 20:50         ` Nicolas George
2025-01-20 21:00           ` Soft Works
2025-01-21  0:55             ` Michael Niedermayer
2025-01-21  4:29               ` Marth64
2025-01-22 20:51               ` Nicolas George
2025-01-22 22:00                 ` Soft Works

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