Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization

[Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>]

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Hi Marth64

On Sun, Jan 26, 2025 at 11:34:37AM -0600, Marth64 wrote:
> Hi Michael,
> 
> > I believe discusion about ffmpeg should be public and on the mailing list
> > where everyone can participate
> It should be public and people should participate. It can also be
> real-time and on IRC.
> Clearly this was done in the past.
> 
> Literally on the front page of TRAC, there is a section titled "FFmpeg
> Developer Meetings"
> with a list of meetings that happened in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2019, 2020.
> https://trac.ffmpeg.org/
> Why can't it happen again?

Having a meeting between people to talk about a common goal like
FFmpeg makes sense.

What we have here is different.


> 
> > Also as you say "without interpersonal arguments" I see no reason
> > for it not to be on the public mailing list
> I see every reason for these to NOT be on the mailing list.
> 
> These types of threads continue to digress into an airing of
> interpersonal arguments.
> It's not healthy. It makes people look bad. People get upset.
> 
> It is toxic by all accounts. To aggravate this, such email threads
> drag on eternally.
> This is why I have asked for a real-time session over IRC.

I remember such a IRC session before the libav fork.
It is very similar to this here
4+ people, who simply accuse me of everything (on IRC though)
this serves no purpose. There is no common ground here

As long as the people belive or claim iam the cause for them attacking others
(and everything else) there is nothing to discuss.
They are adults and they have to take responsibility for what they do


> 
> > And still no action, no really, the CC should do its job or the CC should be disolved.
> > People asked for the new CC to be given a chance, this is the CCs chance.
> > So far i see more offensive mail being posted after the CC is notified not less.
> When I volunteered to be part of the CC, my opening point was to be an
> "effective de-escalator and diplomat".
> 
> That includes applying situational judgement. I am not without a spine
> to stand up and say
> "Folks, let's have a meeting and hash this out." It is called de-escalating.
> 
> I am trying to request that the community has a healthy discussion and
> DIFFUSE tensions.
> People do that in the real-world by making an agenda and talking through issues,
> setting up frameworks for improvements and meeting in the middle.
> 
> Does it always work? No.
> But I also do not see us having tried beyond inflammatory and chronic
> email threads.

What i see today is people attacking me on the mailing list. (in fact out of
teh blue, there was nothing triggering that) And the CC
taking no action. The people are not warned, they are not moderated they
are not banned.

Instead iam being asked to join a chat.
This is something i may have considered if for example i saw the people
attacking me being banned.
As is. No, i see not the slightest sign of the CC doing its job or
providing a neutral or normal environment.
If the CC is not able or willing to do that on the ML, then it wont
on IRC either
I will not subject myself to this.
Everyone can just take a paper write my name on it and accuse and screem
towards it, thats gonna do the exact same.

thank you

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

Any man who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust and willingly 
accepts the penalty by staying in jail in order to arouse the conscience of 
the community on the injustice of the law is at that moment expressing the 
very highest respect for law. - Martin Luther King Jr

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