Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization

[Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>]

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Hi Marth64

On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 04:40:00PM -0600, Marth64 wrote:
> Hello Michael,
> 
> Complaint acknowledged. In the spirit of moving forward and de-escalating:
> 
> Would you be open to a scheduled IRC meeting where we can talk through
> some of the project issues in real time?
> Ideally it is moderated by a neutral party to keep it civil and to the
> point of project problems without interpersonal arguments.

as you say "project issues"
I believe discusion about ffmpeg should be public and on the mailing list
where everyone can participate
Also as you say "without interpersonal arguments" I see no reason
for it not to be on the public mailing list

The CC also had no problems banning nicolas and paul for basically
doing nothing (compared to this) and not asking the people complaining
to join a IRC meeting to talk about some project issues.
And complaints about members and friends of the CC are ignored since several years.
Now they have become so bold to make outright false claims

And still no action, no really, the CC should do its job or the CC should be disolved.
People asked for the new CC to be given a chance, this is the CCs chance.
So far i see more offensive mail being posted after the CC is notified not less.

The CC can stop this, or the CC can allow people to create a pretext for a fork.
(the whole "michael is evil" is such a pretext if its not obvious to anyone)

If the CC takes a clear action, this whole drama simply stops. Otherwise
i suspect it will lead to a fork eventually. In the fork case they will leave with
several others. I think thats a much bigger loss

In fact the longer this continues the more people will leave
And the final outcome will still not differ, people doing these attacks still
will likely be lost to the project.

thx

> 
> On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 2:26 PM Michael Niedermayer
> <michael@niedermayer.cc> wrote:
> >
> > Hi CC
> >
> > please see my complaints inline below
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2025 at 09:36:50PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Le tiistaina 21. tammikuuta 2025, 2.36.47 UTC+2 Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
> > > > Hi
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 10:38:17AM -0600, Marth64 wrote:
> > > > > All this time people send back and forth emails attacking each other or
> > > > > the
> > > > > project could have spent toward investing in modern DevOps infrastructure
> > > > > or discussing other advancements.
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s energy-draining to both read and write.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It makes me wonder do folks actually get enjoyment out of the drama?
> > > >
> > > > not me
> > > >
> > > > but what can i do?
> > >
> > > For example, you actually could:
> > >
> > > - Stop complaining about FFmpeg community members attending conferences and
> > > discussing FFmpeg (e.g. VDD 2024).
> >
> > I have not complained about "FFmpeg community members attending conferences and
> > discussing FFmpeg". Your statement suggests i did that, which i think is not ok
> >
> >
> > > - Stop making inflammatory metaphores about community members (ditto).
> >
> > Can you provide links to your implied accusation ?
> >
> >
> > > - Stop attacking conference organisers and hosts for not accomodating you
> > > (e.g. Kwangwoon university faculty).
> >
> > I have not attacked "Kwangwoon university faculty", this is a strange way
> > to deflect blame for VDD2024. In a room with several dozend
> > microphones noone recorded the meeting, its not the fault of the room or
> > who provided the room.
> > Also it is not an attack (you can also see that i very intentionally do
> > not name anyone personally). FFmpeg is a free software project. We have a
> > open community and are welcoming to new members, meetings should be
> > open to everyone local and remote and should be recorded so everyone can
> > listen to them even when they are unable at the exact moment the meeting
> > happens
> >
> >
> > > - Stop posting insulting AI-generated pictures about other OSS projects on
> > > social media (e.g. VideoLAN, on X).
> >
> > I have not done that.
> > I had posted one joke on my personal twitter that i deleted a few hours later
> > as people seem to have misunderstood it.
> >
> > Its interresting how a joke on my personal twitter that maybe less than 5 people
> > saw before it was deleted is used here.
> > (not to mention it is a copyright violation to spread my art/joke in a way it
> >  was not intended. It was intended to make people smile and have a laugh. And
> >  maybe think about issues but not to hurt people)
> >
> > > - Stop making seemingly false claims about colleagues (e.g. Josh and Marvin),
> >
> > Can you provide links to your implied accusation ?
> >
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > - Stop making utter lame excuses for the previous point (ditto, and causing
> > > James to figuratively lose it).
> >
> > That sounds like an insult to me
> >
> >
> > > - Stop defending ...
> >
> > not sure i did but really, defending someone is reason i get attacked?
> >
> >
> > > - Stop victimising yourself on the mailing list (e.g. this thread).
> >
> > That sounds like an insult to me
> >
> >
> > > - Stop misconstruing people defending themselves, others or their different
> > > opinion as "attacks" against you.
> >
> > That sounds like an insult to me
> >
> >
> > > - Stop criticising some of your business and/or business partners on the
> > > mailing list (i.e. FFlabs).
> >
> > seriously, really, criticising buisness partners is the problem ?
> >
> >
> > > - Stop demeaning the GA members, or the active voters within it,
> >
> > I dont think i have done that
> > I complain about the structure not the people within.
> >
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > As far as I can tell, most actual attacks against you on this mailing list in
> > > recent times were in response to your own critics or complaints.
> >
> > Looking just at the mail you wrote here. Did i cause you to write it ?
> >
> > thx
> >
> > [...]
> > --
> > Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
> >
> > I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your
> > right to say it. -- Voltaire
> 

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated
form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty. -- Plato

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