From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (ffbox0-bg.ffmpeg.org [79.124.17.100]) by master.gitmailbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53E034533D for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2025 01:28:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.1.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90CD968B659; Mon, 20 Jan 2025 03:28:30 +0200 (EET) Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (relay4-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.196]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D8D768A9D3 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2025 03:28:24 +0200 (EET) Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4CFE6E0002 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2025 01:28:23 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=niedermayer.cc; s=gm1; t=1737336503; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=RxQKJ+hvorGYh7G8U5HeotD/it5NP7YBB0oTFk7vVTI=; b=o6YM0sk8a9CzlcdfN/zS+DGXjZFaqbm+/1j51STW4rcj9z1kFpBOCYXgYSgimW0P6HB7RR JY3KVfWmogft0RxGXNbjm9AWwtHdQh2vRx4eoARdKzykY4k0O/hXJaeDtTQEd9k6VtUc9v T0tTDay97nfAg/bTEsLITnd5mxg/Lw83KDII4vnWkdQkRLxnebty0BAoBW9uKZ0UiIPHNI yHdH+wtmYb38Joxw39tniL3wSajhqVt0EXiceXBpVD/qoXgSuPy8G8hamj6CzlNiPiYUyw XycWj/WXhaVkggNT5xggWw9gjg6tUcQFKRtNmbmydNzkh5ZNR7NM5XcJmZCICA== Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2025 02:28:22 +0100 From: Michael Niedermayer To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Message-ID: <20250120012822.GW4991@pb2> References: <20250102141731.GR4991@pb2> <20250102163807.GB7285@haasn.xyz> <20250114170615.GD4991@pb2> <20250117173914.GN4991@pb2> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-GND-Sasl: michael@niedermayer.cc Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] Democratization X-BeenThere: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: FFmpeg development discussions and patches List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0395906339871724491==" Errors-To: ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org Sender: "ffmpeg-devel" Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Post: --===============0395906339871724491== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="owF4sZN8SVx71jj4" Content-Disposition: inline --owF4sZN8SVx71jj4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi James On Fri, Jan 17, 2025 at 03:48:15PM -0300, James Almer wrote: > On 1/17/2025 2:39 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: > > Hi > > > > On Tue, Jan 14, 2025 at 03:40:42PM -0300, James Almer wrote: > > > On 1/14/2025 2:06 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: [...] >=20 > > and from that a community committee is elected yearly of 5 judges which= behind > > closed doors and no record and no allowed defense, no trial, decides wh= atever > > it likes about whoever it liks. Also just this year the CC decided that= its > > power will be expanded beyond interpersonal conflicts to control all fi= nance > > of everyone. >=20 > This is not true, so why even say it? It is true that there where plans to expand the power of the CC. I could qu= ote a private mail from a member of the CC if i find it again. > If you're talking about SPI/STF, the > CC didn't intervene on any request or project approval. You are working in > one said project, as is Niklas. The mere possibility that the CC could "intervene" about anything has a very chilling effect. Few people will touch finances in such an environment. Bascially this will make use of money in the future more difficult. In the past we just all tried to do the right thing for the project but if theres a possibility the CC could declare anything "wrong" many people will think twice if its worth it. I think we need to clearly declare that the CC follows the principle of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-retroactivity and that its powers are limited to what is explicitly agreed by the community and i would think this would require some consensus not a 50%+1 if its expended >=20 > >=20 > > really ? thats a democracy ? >=20 > Yes, it's a democracy. People participate in it, vote, and a majority win= s. > The problem is in the structure we came up with it, as you put it below. >=20 > > you want that ? (i mean if you are not "inside" as in if whatever party= you > > like less, is in charge of this) > >=20 > >=20 > > >=20 > > > You're being incredibly dismissive of the people who are keeping the = project > > > alive by giving them labels like the above. > >=20 > > no, not the people. The people are FFmpeg, teh project would be nothing > > without the people. > >=20 > > Iam dismissive about the political structure we created. >=20 > You're displeased with the toothless CC that was replaced last month, and > not with the overall structure itself. And I'm in part at fault for it not > acting when it should have. I have said it before. > The new CC hasn't yet put to test, so at the very least lets do that. >=20 > Now, if all fails, you and anyone else can suggest a new structure. It co= uld > to be disband the CC and replace it with something else. It could be to > clearly define that ML temporary bans and thread moderation can be handed= by > ML admins (With a modicum of common sense to choose when to act) while the > CC deliberates on any relevant report. It could be to increase the amount= of > people in the committee. It could be anything we can agree on, and the way > we agree on it is with a majority vote. I do think the CC is a problematic entity in a community where there are complex friendships and hatred. And then the members of this CC come from t= his small group and mainly judge members of this same group >=20 > Similarly, you can suggest to increase, or decrease, the bar to enter the > GA. I'd expect you asking for the latter, because i recall that you some > time ago mentioned how said bar was in fact too low. But then even less > people would make it in, which doesn't seem like something you'd like see= ing > how you insist the 2000+ ML subscriptors, even if they only lurk and never > even talk, should be considered. I do see the threshold based system as fragile, I dont think changing the threshold fixes this. On one side its slighty more people and even easier to get vote power on the other its harder to get vote power per person but fewer people. This would result in a even smaller group. Neither really sounds great to me >=20 > Also, it can also be made that certain votes require a special majority a= nd > not a simple 50% + 1. Anything, and everything, can be changed. > The only > thing that should remain a constant is to keep the project a community > managed one. keep community managed, yes thx [...] --=20 Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB There will always be a question for which you do not know the correct answe= r. --owF4sZN8SVx71jj4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABEKAB0WIQSf8hKLFH72cwut8TNhHseHBAsPqwUCZ42msgAKCRBhHseHBAsP q2B4AKCMVgpYxMFMN0qAY8/xjd4t79QPnACfX8Bi6YnhwAJ9jqTFYo3qpSy0u8k= =Tgu/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --owF4sZN8SVx71jj4-- --===============0395906339871724491== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe". --===============0395906339871724491==--