From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org> Received: from ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (ffbox0-bg.ffmpeg.org [79.124.17.100]) by master.gitmailbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D6AE4B693 for <ffmpegdev@gitmailbox.com>; Tue, 11 Jun 2024 13:40:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.1.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95E9D68D838; Tue, 11 Jun 2024 16:39:59 +0300 (EEST) Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (relay6-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.198]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8844C68B631 for <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org>; Tue, 11 Jun 2024 16:39:53 +0300 (EEST) Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EA84FC0002 for <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org>; Tue, 11 Jun 2024 13:39:52 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=niedermayer.cc; s=gm1; t=1718113193; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=LbAEqoMvn4asXVA8UY569m+YfffkHxUjlPt38ECwmGs=; b=cCC2iMKmmm5QToHcyIXrw1InCiSrAGkGFuLB805fbSImgAIYBKaF9CCxzu/D2hC3ATGKnV 97ETw2f0Dp9wtuixxLGoWkYY6V0mn2XdBtGXbdn3LEccUcObqSmumCZ/tHKbGHpCFkhueV InBgVpTZKL/GGOqIQCqDQejE+wxf/Bkh+ZJp3CwLbW0DXONcel2e9h0Th5ctOeKgX9nbig YKl+pm5R2QKVN07VDusesvuFbIjhQAn7+BTD/tKYKVUcQHOA1c3wW6M2E21QMTKJI4ds/4 WZ/YkN810UTczdH3b738FeOO4eXkaRZtO7F81pUHCio27Z6y+cEbyY6SPlSB9g== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2024 15:39:52 +0200 From: Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc> To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org> Message-ID: <20240611133952.GJ2821752@pb2> References: <CAPBf_O=k7iXHOBrT66=-x4j4cgyLdBhm-f=vWxqxju4H+iWfug@mail.gmail.com> <20240610122909.GD2821752@pb2> <CABLWnS9m0CHzEn3mVJzUf5gR5_9hV1wQC9JiO5Dpy0wPpEdtiw@mail.gmail.com> <20240611001731.GF2821752@pb2> <CAPBf_O=0NL0pFuiJUwR1kEHVfRANNAc9QT4ot0BQPNBoRweVsA@mail.gmail.com> <20240611095923.GH2821752@pb2> <AD357330-1F6F-415D-83A7-22605D95816A@remlab.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <AD357330-1F6F-415D-83A7-22605D95816A@remlab.net> X-GND-Sasl: michael@niedermayer.cc Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] remove DEC Alpha DSP & support code X-BeenThere: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: FFmpeg development discussions and patches <ffmpeg-devel.ffmpeg.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/options/ffmpeg-devel>, <mailto:ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel> List-Post: <mailto:ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org> List-Help: <mailto:ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel>, <mailto:ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8399381553557727425==" Errors-To: ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org Sender: "ffmpeg-devel" <ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org> Archived-At: <https://master.gitmailbox.com/ffmpegdev/20240611133952.GJ2821752@pb2/> List-Archive: <https://master.gitmailbox.com/ffmpegdev/> List-Post: <mailto:ffmpegdev@gitmailbox.com> --===============8399381553557727425== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="i4KXhbbJtv4tqv13" Content-Disposition: inline --i4KXhbbJtv4tqv13 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 11, 2024 at 02:26:37PM +0300, R=E9mi Denis-Courmont wrote: >=20 >=20 > Le 11 juin 2024 12:59:23 GMT+03:00, Michael Niedermayer <michael@niederma= yer.cc> a =E9crit=A0: > >On Mon, Jun 10, 2024 at 08:52:08PM -0400, Sean McGovern wrote: > >[...] > >> Are there any real concerns about the Alpha removal itself? > >> People still wanting to use FFmpeg for hardware that old can stick > >> with 7.0 (and fork it if they like -- that's the beauty of FOSS). > > > >Loosing security support, sounds not viable, so if alpha is removed > >the question what that would do to users (aka performance and does it > >work/build after the patchset) is still an open question ... >=20 > What supported distribution would people even be getting security support= from? None of the mainstream distributions support Alpha anymore. So if (g= eneric) you care about security support that architecture simply isn't viab= le, regardless of FFmpeg. > > Also if security really is the concern, then using the supported plain C = code of FFmpeg seems safer than using unmaintained SIMD optimisations. security wise, the risk for something like alpha is generic architecture unspecific attacks. The probability of an attack specific to a= lpha SIMD is very low even if there is an issue in that code, which in itself isnt that = likely because its unlikely anyone will design an attack specific for ffmpeg SIMD = on alpha >=20 > >Also theres the question about how few people would be affected and what > >we gain from this? >=20 > Most likely zero people are affected. Unfortunately, I guess that the onl= y way to know for sure is to remove the support and see if anyone complains= about it then. I doubt thats a reliable way to get feedback >=20 > Another option is to post on the website news that Alpha will be removed = if nobody steps up. I don't think that's a very good use of the website's = attention though. If we want reliable statistics, it would be needed to have at build or runt= ime a question to the user if they are ok with a "ping" to the server for usage statistics. This could be limited to architectures we intend to remove That said, did configure print any removal warning before this ? >=20 > >> It is worth mentioning that even Debian hasn't supported Alpha (along > >> with several other architectures) since release 8.0 in June 2018. > > > >I think debian dropped alpha from the officially supported architectures > >but it seems there is still some inofficial support: > >https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/12.0/alpha/ >=20 > To be precise, Alpha and HPPA were moved to Debian Ports in 2018 after th= ey were dropped from the official archives. They have remained with only un= stable support since then, which indicates that they are essentially moribu= nd. Re-emerging from ports is infeasible for a purely legacy architecture. I dont know what the file is but it says debian-12.0.0-alpha-NETINST-1.iso 2023-05-16 09:04 debian 12 is the latest release of debian AFAIK thx [...] --=20 Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB It is a danger to trust the dream we wish for rather than the science we have, -- Dr. Kenneth Brown --i4KXhbbJtv4tqv13 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABEKAB0WIQSf8hKLFH72cwut8TNhHseHBAsPqwUCZmhTpAAKCRBhHseHBAsP q1FlAJ9Nl63PUGgHAO7s0PmDojsAra3NygCgjDgwxhyMjC4CItRSKdItSTmNN+8= =wuM+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --i4KXhbbJtv4tqv13-- --===============8399381553557727425== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe". --===============8399381553557727425==--