From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (ffbox0-bg.ffmpeg.org [79.124.17.100]) by master.gitmailbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 013124B336 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2024 01:16:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.1.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33B6468D693; Tue, 4 Jun 2024 04:16:20 +0300 (EEST) Received: from relay9-d.mail.gandi.net (relay9-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.199]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD36268D66C for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2024 04:16:12 +0300 (EEST) Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3731BFF802 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2024 01:16:12 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=niedermayer.cc; s=gm1; t=1717463772; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=b6L/RtgsevvhIXA7FPaz4btoQXQlj7GcoZ1TOqvlszY=; b=RQOlUEUbVcHcsQfy+grsiYnNNko2aJcqnDMba9c0uVbJx/Q/i+XmvMpfhW2VY+bYoQmRHf 4WzjOL0QzGeVw/Awmoge2jSGPDbYBgLLXcbgZDmIEli7LxIUjQJYrDGYYa/rGlwe+BNPHE P3LyyotgVLptwy6sSe8+VB/AGG6u1wHxijeBNIoYyffCdZyKCW1Yc10qLaD7bmV8TCcKWL QgnR713eQ0yqPblN4m5jHU/nDObKGUmim5jWi0VSMjD/+/V6zFls/vT0uPttMgZ/VHAHGS PB+JhZj+I5TMLPQ7VGbPs+0kWmx2iaEtLvgsZPnjs8u+VV0mtJYVHr0HTF2iVA== Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2024 03:16:11 +0200 From: Michael Niedermayer To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Message-ID: <20240604011611.GH2821752@pb2> References: <20240123192241.GA6420@pb2> <20240302225538.GI6420@pb2> <20240302231928.GJ6420@pb2> <20240603213237.GC2821752@pb2> <4f35870d-3c4f-4ee7-8a83-c337490e8ca7@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4f35870d-3c4f-4ee7-8a83-c337490e8ca7@gmail.com> X-GND-Sasl: michael@niedermayer.cc Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] FFmpeg 7.0 blocking issues X-BeenThere: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: FFmpeg development discussions and patches List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2302490369203562046==" Errors-To: ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org Sender: "ffmpeg-devel" Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Post: --===============2302490369203562046== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZfA+D/N/UnTE6S9V" Content-Disposition: inline --ZfA+D/N/UnTE6S9V Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 03, 2024 at 06:41:03PM -0300, James Almer wrote: > On 6/3/2024 6:32 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 02, 2024 at 03:49:42PM +0200, Sebastian Ramacher wrote: > > > On 2024-03-03 09:55:15 +0100, Sebastian Ramacher wrote: > > > > On 2024-03-02 20:39:08 -0500, Sean McGovern wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Mar 2, 2024, 18:19 Michael Niedermayer > > > > > wrote: > > > > >=20 > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 03, 2024 at 12:06:14AM +0100, Sebastian Ramacher wr= ote: > > > > > > > On 2024-03-02 23:55:38 +0100, Michael Niedermayer wrote: > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 08:22:41PM +0100, Michael Niedermay= er wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > As it was a little difficult for me to not loose track of= what is > > > > > > > > > blocking a release. I suggest that for all release blocki= ng issues > > > > > > > > > open a ticket and set Blocking to 7.0 > > > > > > > > > that way this: > > > > > > > > > https://trac.ffmpeg.org/query?blocking=3D~7.0 > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > or for the ones not closed: > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > https://trac.ffmpeg.org/query?status=3Dnew&status=3Dopen&status= =3Dreopened&blocking=3D~7.0 > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > will list all blocking issues > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > Ive added one, for testing that, i intend to add more if = i see > > > > > > something > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > What is blocking? (IMHO) > > > > > > > > > * regressions (unless its non possible to fix before rele= ase) > > > > > > > > > * crashes > > > > > > > > > * security issues > > > > > > > > > * data loss > > > > > > > > > * privacy issues > > > > > > > > > * anything the commuity agrees should be in the release > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > We still have 3 blocking issues on trac > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > do people want me to wait or ignore them and branch ? > > > > > > > > Iam not sure when the exact deadline is but if we keep wait= ing > > > > > > > > we will not get into ubuntu 24.04 LTS > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > 24.04 is past feature freeze, so it's too late for that. > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > we should aim earlier in the future then. > > > > > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > > > LTS is only every 2 years, yes? > > > >=20 > > > > Yes > > > >=20 > > > > > How do we make sure this doesn't happen in 2026? How much of a ga= p is there > > > > > between feature freeze and release? > > > >=20 > > > > Not involved in Ubuntu, so that's from past experience: feature > > > > freeze is usually about two months before the release. > > > >=20 > > > > So here's the catch: Debian's timeline also needs to be taken into > > > > account. If the ffmpeg release does not involve the removal of depr= ecated API and > > > > a SONAME bump, then the time from ffmpeg to release to upload to De= bian > > > > unstable and then import in Ubuntu is short. In this case, I am sure > > > > that I could convince Ubuntu maintainers to import it even during > > > > feature freeze. > > > >=20 > > > > But with SONAME bumps and changes in the API, it takes a lot more t= ime > > > > to work through the high number of ffmpeg reverse dependencies. In = that > > > > case, plan a release at least 6 months before an Ubuntu LTS release. > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > We usually have to rely on upstream maintainers to adopt to the > > > > changes and that take times. Many moons ago Anton helped with provi= ding > > > > patches, but for the last couple of API changes it took some months= from > > > > "dear maintainer, here is ffmpeg X for testing, please fix the buil= d of > > > > your package" to actually doing all uploads and rebuilds. For examp= le, > > > > the transition to ffmpeg 6.0 was started in July 2023 and was done = in > > > > December 2023. > > >=20 > > > Just as a FYI: ffmpeg 7.0 breaks close to 70 reverse dependencies in > > > Debian. The list is available at [1]. So if you want ffmpeg X to be in > > > Debian Y or Ubuntu Z, X needs to be released at least half a year bef= ore > > > Y or Z freeze. > >=20 > > Is there something that ffmpeg can do to reduce this breakage ? > > (i know its a bit of a lame question as its API brekages but i mean > > can the policy we have about deprecating API/ABI be amended in some way > > to make this easier ? >=20 > Well, no. > Breakages are expected when you remove API. Are Breakages also expected when you do not remove API ? > The real question is > why so many projects wait until the old API is gone to migrate. What we > removed in 7.0 has had its replacement in place for a couple years, since > 5.1. Because few need or want to migrate to a new API every year. Also continous migrations can introduce bugs into user programs. How many of these 70 reverse dependancies will be properly tested or tested at all beyond build and one runtime check when the build error is fixed ? thx [...] --=20 Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB Any man who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust and willingly= =20 accepts the penalty by staying in jail in order to arouse the conscience of= =20 the community on the injustice of the law is at that moment expressing the= =20 very highest respect for law. - Martin Luther King Jr --ZfA+D/N/UnTE6S9V Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABEKAB0WIQSf8hKLFH72cwut8TNhHseHBAsPqwUCZl5q1wAKCRBhHseHBAsP qw8iAJ41ZaQpN0H06yKzgGZ4OM0eq3Y0rwCfTxTGjpHTAM0zK902fgyz8CNZWDA= =fH36 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZfA+D/N/UnTE6S9V-- --===============2302490369203562046== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe". --===============2302490369203562046==--