From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (ffbox0-bg.ffmpeg.org [79.124.17.100]) by master.gitmailbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13B1749995 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2024 22:00:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.1.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4E3E68D378; Thu, 25 Apr 2024 01:00:55 +0300 (EEST) Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (relay3-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.195]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76B7368CF59 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2024 01:00:48 +0300 (EEST) Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B75ED60004 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2024 22:00:47 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=niedermayer.cc; s=gm1; t=1713996047; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=spzTg2nvRL6WUztIaC4vBOVa4XdK+Z2hwKDbLY/ssr0=; b=M66YaKh7iH134ru5Amrb7TZfa1t2GPLqHTN0y20y5IBS0pTM5o1EiffqDZUJSoXWdnz+Mb SxA5AtX705aLPVq45W8PJf4xqZXpO2/DPsk4l8QuifN30RW+PpN+kNZa3HQf50KSGya4Pg ZiQh43cOsiaDlaoGwoWzRsGkq3NUq6VVbO23GbcbwFwx6+R+X403mJGjSMJmciTldvBfJn KBIGdvYrWrXlkhjJx7jbWrZIoqBsJL8tApggooF4Tjc4eIIaVDAT/3t4JWn8KUL7HeV2SZ C9SgSlXlrX24skvMZYniPNO4Ito48DMiFUD1jFUAtqqyrxNL6d86Rf0/j716ug== Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2024 00:00:47 +0200 From: Michael Niedermayer To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Message-ID: <20240424220047.GV6420@pb2> References: <20240417135832.GJ6420@pb2> <20240421204008.GZ6420@pb2> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-GND-Sasl: michael@niedermayer.cc Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC] 5 year plan & Inovation X-BeenThere: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: FFmpeg development discussions and patches List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4523469748426385176==" Errors-To: ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org Sender: "ffmpeg-devel" Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Post: --===============4523469748426385176== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cqB/yiohOWAqFEhM" Content-Disposition: inline --cqB/yiohOWAqFEhM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 03:12:59PM +0300, R=E9mi Denis-Courmont wrote: >=20 >=20 > Le 21 avril 2024 23:40:08 GMT+03:00, Michael Niedermayer a =E9crit=A0: > >On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 05:11:36PM +0800, R=E9mi Denis-Courmont wrote: > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> Le 17 avril 2024 21:58:32 GMT+08:00, Michael Niedermayer a =E9crit=A0: > >> >Hi all > >> > > >> >The pace of inovation in FFmpeg has been slowing down. > >> >Most work is concentarted nowadays on code refactoring, and adding > >> >support for new codecs and formats. > >>=20 > >> OSS projects of age similar to FFmpeg are either mature (like FFmpeg),= or more or less dead. Besides, FFmpeg is an established brand, which means= that it's expected to be good at what it's been doing... and not expected = to be good at anything else. > >>=20 > >> Of course there are also specific aspects: back then, every company ma= de up its own codecs. Nowadays, there's at most three tracks (for video): H= =2E26x, Chinese AVSx and AV-x, while AVC or HEVC have become "good enough" = for most applications. > >>=20 > >> If (generic) you want to work on radical innovation, I think you will = be better served by creating a new project. Both the FFmpeg project structu= re and brand would probably do you a disservice otherwise. > > > >I will disagree on this a bit > > > >If we for a moment look at the commerical world (but its not fundamental= ly different in OSS) > > > >Projects/Companies are created to fill some need, initially they > >often need to concentarte on a narrow market because they dont have the > >resources to do "everything" and if they try they go bankrupt. > >Once they are established and have the resources they grow or they die > > > >Microsoft started with a OS in 1985, added an office suite in 1990 > >internet explorer in 1995, xbox in 2001, Microsoft Azure in 2008 > >and you can fill in more. > >Today Microsoft is one of the largest companies in teh world. >=20 > Microsoft expanded into new fields with Xbox and Azure, yes. But Windows = is still an OS, and Office is still a (un)productivity suite. >=20 > Accordingly, maybe you can innovate with a new project within the same le= gal entity as FFmpeg (be it SPI, FFlabs or whatever). >=20 > But FFmpeg as a software project is not a suitable venue for radical new = innovation. Microsofts OS does not limit what can be installed to whats in MS main repo= sitory, FFmpeg does Microsoft windows from a user POV includes internet explorer IIRC. Its not = a seperate product from just the legal entity. It was not in the first OS from microso= ft microsofts first OS MS-DOS 1.0 ? looks slightly different than the current = latest OS. There was radical innovation, if one likes MS or hate them. >=20 > >You can do the same with apple, google, or others. >=20 > Sure but you can't do the same with iPhone or Google Search. of course you can, googles search inovated. Theres a image search a audio s= earch news, travel, shoping. These did not exist in the initial google search. And while i dont know, i = suspect google search is very good at finding google products. Google didnt became that big by simply "not being evil" But lets not assume, lets try, if i search for maps i get Google Maps as first entry. or finance, 2nd entry is https://www.google.com/finance/ And the iphone uses apples operating system and their app store, with many apple apps. Check the first iphone and compare it to the latest there is huge inovation with what you can do with all the software that comes preinstalled and also what you can install later. Thats in stark contrast to "FFmpeg as a software project is not a suitable venue for radical new innov= ation" when did you last use siri with your iphone ? siri was added in iphone 4s IIUC. Thats a big change. I can ultimately only repeat my oppinion. FFmpeg will innovate or FFmpeg will stagnate and eventually be replaced by some other project that doesnt have an opposition to innovation. IMHO we need to find out what direction (of innovation or lack thereof) people want. This RFC thread is kind of the first step. 2nd step would be a vote. thx [...] --=20 Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopp= ed=20 leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help or conclud= ed=20 you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership. - Colin Powell --cqB/yiohOWAqFEhM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABEIAB0WIQSf8hKLFH72cwut8TNhHseHBAsPqwUCZimBCAAKCRBhHseHBAsP q6REAJ0ez6VxIUjRstQZ2r+tg46zrSyhdgCdEeKpqbhWrWU81Crl8ojJBQ6p7M4= =5fj5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cqB/yiohOWAqFEhM-- --===============4523469748426385176== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe". --===============4523469748426385176==--