From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (ffbox0-bg.ffmpeg.org [79.124.17.100]) by master.gitmailbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D459D480A4 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2023 17:39:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.1.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF70168CBC8; Thu, 9 Nov 2023 19:39:30 +0200 (EET) Received: from relay8-d.mail.gandi.net (relay8-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.201]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E29A368CACC for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2023 19:39:24 +0200 (EET) Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 426FC1BF207 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2023 17:39:24 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2023 18:39:23 +0100 From: Michael Niedermayer To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Message-ID: <20231109173923.GA3543730@pb2> References: <169917627924.11195.16676364527851497705@lain.khirnov.net> <169952305288.11195.8661027913609939054@lain.khirnov.net> <20231109115525.GV3543730@pb2> <169953247356.11195.1507797262881301434@lain.khirnov.net> <20231109162112.GX3543730@pb2> <169954957667.11195.13342031312073463508@lain.khirnov.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <169954957667.11195.13342031312073463508@lain.khirnov.net> X-GND-Sasl: michael@niedermayer.cc Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA X-BeenThere: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: FFmpeg development discussions and patches List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9049502642669801367==" Errors-To: ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org Sender: "ffmpeg-devel" Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Post: --===============9049502642669801367== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="WGCiojDd9cftrba3" Content-Disposition: inline --WGCiojDd9cftrba3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 06:06:16PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote: > Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 17:21:12) > > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 01:21:13PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote: > > > As far as I can tell, the voter list in the last vote should be the s= ame > > > as the GA from 2020, except for the extra members whose voting rights > > > expire after 2 years. > > >=20 > > > Do you dispute that?=20 > >=20 > > There are at least 3 issues here > >=20 > > * The first and maybe the biggest, is that our vote superviser can repl= y to > > mails within 20min (like in this thread here) but is not replying to = a simple > > question within days where the list of voters comes from he used and = how it > > relates to the 2020 GA. It gives one the feeling he has some sort of > > difficulty with awnsering that question > > you took a guess here and replied, and i appreciate that. But really = JB > > choose this list and also the one in 2020. Only he can explain where = these > > lists come from and how they relate. >=20 > JB did explain where the list comes from [1] - it was generated by the > script that is now in our tree. Nobody disputed it in 2020. >=20 > > * I know for a fact that at least zane was not in the 2020 GA as i talk= ed > > with him and i know he did cast a vote in 2023 because again he told = me. > > So even if you partially apply the rules these lists do not match >=20 > Zane had 30 commits in July 2020, so he SHOULD have been on the list. If > he wasn't, then it was a mistake in 2020. the 2020 GA list cannot have been created in July 2020 because there where votes prior that used it. >=20 > > * The 2nd issue is that there are rules how to change the GA over time > > like that after 2 years there needs to a confirmation AND that the > > other members represent the "active" developers in the last 36 months. > > I can see an argument to leave the 2020 GA untouched and use it as is > > I can also see an argument to update it, and exactly this was done in= a > > vote in 2021 by JB. Now we are here trying the 3rd variant of applying > > only half the rules. > > But whats more so, we actually are not. What you are doing here is > > looking at what happened and trying to rationalize it, trying to find > > an explanation for the list. Not stating upfront what this list is > > IMO this is not acceptable for a vote. Uhm we found this list, lets s= ee > > where that might have come from .... >=20 > To be honest, it very much seems to me that you are trying to bikeshed > the process to death. Yes, it is imperfect, but that is to be expected > given we've only used it a few times so far, and the last time was over > 2 years ago. What we are doing here is trying to clarify the rules so > that we actually can vote with some regularity. Is it bikesheding if 2 lists that are supposed to be the same differ in multiple entries ? these are lists with roughly 50 entries, now we _know_ 2 people differ but there where 3 on the extra voters list so really 4 differ almost certai= nly thats roughly 10% of the voters are wrong. Thats not bikesheding IMO. We arent talking about 1 voter in hundreads. I do want to know what happened here and want to have this not happen again. if i offend people with that investigation then so be it >=20 > In the vote we just had, option A won its contests against B/C/D by > 17/7, 23/1, and 17/7, respectively. While it is possible that the list > used was not entirely correct (also depending on > the intepretation of the rules), I see no reason to think it was > incorrect in 10 people, which is what you'd need to have a chance of > getting a different result. Its not just this vote, its that we need to understand what happened here so we can prevent this from happening again thx [...] --=20 Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB Nations do behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives.= =20 -- Abba Eban --WGCiojDd9cftrba3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABEIAB0WIQSf8hKLFH72cwut8TNhHseHBAsPqwUCZU0ZSAAKCRBhHseHBAsP q9vkAJ9iEHvth/w+Lcq+USkTC+yl8imbCwCfWxXpEv+0/WiemUrO7da/uTjcKwY= =jkP0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --WGCiojDd9cftrba3-- --===============9049502642669801367== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe". --===============9049502642669801367==--