From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org> Received: from ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (ffbox0-bg.ffmpeg.org [79.124.17.100]) by master.gitmailbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9A7647CC9 for <ffmpegdev@gitmailbox.com>; Tue, 17 Oct 2023 21:57:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [127.0.1.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8415868C9B4; Wed, 18 Oct 2023 00:57:53 +0300 (EEST) Received: from relay9-d.mail.gandi.net (relay9-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.199]) by ffbox0-bg.mplayerhq.hu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B314968C78A for <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org>; Wed, 18 Oct 2023 00:57:47 +0300 (EEST) Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D8FF4FF803 for <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org>; Tue, 17 Oct 2023 21:57:46 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2023 23:57:45 +0200 From: Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc> To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org> Message-ID: <20231017215745.GE3543730@pb2> References: <20231013191934.GQ3543730@pb2> <2399184.TVbLC8jhAB@basile.remlab.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2399184.TVbLC8jhAB@basile.remlab.net> X-GND-Sasl: michael@niedermayer.cc Subject: Re: [FFmpeg-devel] SWS cleanup / SPI Funding Suggestion X-BeenThere: ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: FFmpeg development discussions and patches <ffmpeg-devel.ffmpeg.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/options/ffmpeg-devel>, <mailto:ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel> List-Post: <mailto:ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org> List-Help: <mailto:ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel>, <mailto:ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches <ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7999196976135688003==" Errors-To: ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org Sender: "ffmpeg-devel" <ffmpeg-devel-bounces@ffmpeg.org> Archived-At: <https://master.gitmailbox.com/ffmpegdev/20231017215745.GE3543730@pb2/> List-Archive: <https://master.gitmailbox.com/ffmpegdev/> List-Post: <mailto:ffmpegdev@gitmailbox.com> --===============7999196976135688003== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7tGYYWp2rWczQsSS" Content-Disposition: inline --7tGYYWp2rWczQsSS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 09:50:41PM +0300, R=E9mi Denis-Courmont wrote: > Le perjantaina 13. lokakuuta 2023, 22.19.34 EEST Michael Niedermayer a = =E9crit : > > But some goals would probably be to make sws > > * pleasent to work with > > * similar speed or faster > > * proper multithreading > > * proper full colorspace convertion not ignoring gamma, primaries, ... > > * clean / understandable modular design (maybe everything can be a "Fil= ter" > > inside sws that get build into a chain) >=20 > It sounds very nice. But it also sounds very fuzzy and subjective. Unless= you=20 > can put this in more objective terms such as would be expected of a state= ment=20 > of work, all the while not compromising the intent of the sponsorship, I = would=20 > advise against using foundation funds. What i had in mind was that the developer who wants to work on this would provide a offer that is more clearly defined. >=20 > But first... >=20 > > Proper payment (50k$ maybe) would be too much in relation to what SPI h= as > > ATM (150k$) >=20 > In my opinion, not "paying properly" is morally wrong, and sets a very ba= d=20 > example that it is acceptable not to pay developers properly. It can be "proper" depending on where the developer is from, what she exact= ly will do and how much time she will need. Also the developer may have other sources of payment for this work or may benefit from a better swscale direc= tly or want to work on this volunteerly and just needs a little extra push. I dont think its correct to view this in isolation as a commercial US based software development contract. (i did make this mistake) >=20 > Also it is really not that much money. I suppose that the yearly revenues= are=20 > even only a fraction of that balance. If so, I would argue that it is not= =20 > financially reasonable, doubly so when the overall world economy is in a = rather=20 > iffy situation. If it were up to me, I would keep that money for infrastr= ucture=20 > and other fees, purposeful hardware donations and travel. all the SPI money stuff is public. But IMO the really important part is a different one. Not how much money we have in SPI from donations today. But how much we could have if we USE the money. Why would someone donate to FFmpeg ? we have enough money for hw & travel. If we use it to improve FFmpeg suddenly there is a reason to donate and also theres a reason for us to ask for donations. Only when we use the money and actively seek donations can we know what amo= unt of money would be available. Also not using the money ever is almost certainly not what the people donat= ing wanted. And many different developers did over the last years indicate the = need for more solid financial sustainability. both SPI and FFlabs can be a parts= in this. Rejecting SPI seems not wise. Having multiple sources of funding seem= s a good thing. > > Lastly using foundation funds to sponsor specific project may open a pand= ora=20 > box. FFlabs opened that already i think > What happens if more than one credible developer wants to take up the > project? Then 15k$ was too much > Or if other developers demand that their other reasonable clean-up > projects be funded too? they should ask IMHO > If the revenue and balance were much higher, you could > hire all of them. But you can't, and then the simplest and safest way to = avoid=20 > moral hazards is to hire nobody. Let us all starve because if we start fishing and eating fish it might just= be that there are not enough fish Whats the worst that can happen ? We fund a few projects, we ask for donations a slight bit more actively, maybe a news entry on the webpage pointing to what work was possible from donations. and it doesnt work out and our funds decrease from 120k with funding 5+ pro= jects to 60k. and at that point we return to hw and travel only use of the money >=20 > N.B.: I am not part of the GA, and I have neither the expertise and=20 > credibility nor the time and motivation to take up this project, so that'= s=20 > just my free advice. your comments have always been interresting, even if i might disagree with them ! thx [...] --=20 Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB Frequently ignored answer#1 FFmpeg bugs should be sent to our bugtracker. U= ser questions about the command line tools should be sent to the ffmpeg-user ML. And questions about how to use libav* should be sent to the libav-user ML. --7tGYYWp2rWczQsSS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABEIAB0WIQSf8hKLFH72cwut8TNhHseHBAsPqwUCZS8DVgAKCRBhHseHBAsP q0CrAJwNnUWI+vYoWYhPF3SYZXy85cUC/wCeMympqlH46U1vkMpMhCyICuNRBLI= =qm0T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7tGYYWp2rWczQsSS-- --===============7999196976135688003== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ffmpeg-devel mailing list ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe". --===============7999196976135688003==--