Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [PATCH v2] avformat: add Software Defined Radio support

[Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>]

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Hi

On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 06:37:18PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Le 23 juin 2023 13:17:28 GMT+02:00, Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc> a écrit :
> >On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 10:34:10AM +0800, Kieran Kunhya wrote:
> >> FFmpeg is not the place for SDR. SDR is as large and complex as the
> >> entirety of multimedia.
> >> 
> >> What next, is FFmpeg going to implement TCP in userspace, Wifi, Ethernet,
> >> an entire 4G and 5G stack?
> >
> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
> >
> >What my patch is doing is adding support for AM demodulation, the AM
> >specific code is like 2 pages. The future plan for FM demodulation will
> >not add alot of code either. DAB/DVB should also not be anything big
> >(if that is implemented at all by anyone)
> 
> Literally every one of those layer-2 protocols has a lower-level API already on Linux, and typically they are, or would be, backends to libavdevice.
> 
> (Specifically AM and FM are supported by V4L radio+ALSA; DAB and DVB by Linux-DVB. 4G and 5G are network devices.)

4 problems
* FFmpeg is not "linux only".
* No software i tried or was suggested to me used V4L or Linux-DVB.
* iam not sure the RSP1A i have has linux drivers for these interfaces
* What iam interrested in was working with the signals at a low level, why
  because i find it interresting and fun. Accessing AM/FM through some high
  level API is not something iam interrested in. This is also because any
  issues are likely unsolvable at that level.
  If probing didnt find a station, or demodulation doesnt work, a high
  level API likely wont allow doing anything about that.


> 
> So I can only agree with Kieran that these are *lower* layers, that don't really look like they belong in FFmpeg.

FFmpeg has been always very low level. We stoped at where the OS provides
support that works, not at some academic "level". If every OS provides a great
SDR API than i missed that, which is possible because that was never something
i was interrested in.


> 
> >If the code grows beyond that it could be split out into a seperate
> >library outside FFmpeg.
> 
> I think that the point is, that that code should be up-front in a separate FFmpeg-independent library. And it's not just a technical argument with layering. It's also that it's too far outside what FFmpeg typically works with, so it really should not be put under the purview of FFmpeg-devel. In other words, it's also a social problem.
> 
> The flip side of that argument is that this may be of interest to other higher-level projects than FFmpeg, including projects that (rightfully) don't depend on FFmpeg, and that this may interest people who wouldn't contribute or participate in FFmpeg.

The issue i have with this view is it comes from people who want nothing to
do with this SDR work.
I would see this argument very differntly if it would come from people who
want to work on that external SDR library.

I mean this is more a "go away" than a "lets work together on SDR (for FFmpeg)"


> 
> >The size of all of SDR really has as much bearing on FFmpeg as the size
> >of all of mathematics has on the use of mathematics in FFmpeg.
> 
> On an empirical basis, I'd argue that FFmpeg mathematics are so fine-tuned to specific algorithmic use cases, that you will anyway end up writing custom algorithms and optimisations here. And thus you won't be sharing much code with (the rest of) FFmpeg down the line.

Iam not sure iam drifting off topic maybe but
I frequently use code from libavutil outside multimedia

thx


[...]
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Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

The misfortune of the wise is better than the prosperity of the fool.
-- Epicurus

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