* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 11:55 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-09 12:11 ` Vittorio Giovara
2023-11-09 15:40 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 12:14 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
` (4 subsequent siblings)
5 siblings, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Vittorio Giovara @ 2023-11-09 12:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 6:55 AM Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
wrote:
> Fabrice Bellard (Founder of the project over 600 commits in FFmpeg)
> Aman Karmani (17 authored commits in 2020-2023, recently active in
> 2023-June and work all over the codebase)
> Baptiste Coudurier (Pays for our fate server since forever, maintains 15
> things in MAINTAINERs, is the the copyright of 56 files, over 1900 commits
> in FFmpeg)
> Moritz Barsnick (Member of the 2020 GA but was not on jbs list)
> Lauri Kasanen (Linux / PowerPC maintainer)
> Dale Curtis (14 commits in 2020 was in the 2020-GA)
> Alexander Strasser (Root admin, just recently reported that he could not
> vote even though he was in teh 2020-GA, 3 things in MAINTAINERs)
> foo86 (maintainer and author of dca*, dolby_e*, dtsdec, s337m)
> Huiwen Ren (8 matches in the codebase of his name, avs2* and
> related things maintainer)
> Martin Vignali (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2019 because of
> hostility)
> Lou Logan (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2020, also in the
> 2020-GA but not on jbs list)
> Matthieu Bouron (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, recently active in 2022, 5
> entries in MAINTAINERs, 25 in copyrights)
> Ruiling Song (vf_tonemap_opencl maintainer, added SIMD code to
> various bits of code, last active in git in 2020)
> John Stebbins (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, last active in git in
> 2020, 1 copyright match)
> Ting Fu (last active in April 2023, 24 commits in 2021-2023, )
> Tobias Rapp (vf_readvitc mainatiner, last commit in Jul 2023, 88
> commits in FFmpeg)
> Shiyou Yin (MIPS & LoongArch maintainer, 24 matches for his name
> in the source, last commit May 2023)
> Reimar Döffinger (over 1400 commits in FFmpeg, root admin and last
> commit in Oct 2023, 49 matches for his name in the codebase)
> Aurelien Jacobs (over 1000 commits in FFmpeg, 13 entries in
> MAINTAINERs, 70 copyright line matches)
> Hendrik Leppkes (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 2 entries in MAINTAINERs,
> 4 copyrights, last commit in Jul 2023)
> Vitor Sessak (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 28 copyright matches)
> Kostya Shishkov (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 162 copyright matches)
> Ramiro Polla (over 600 commits in FFmpeg, 5 matches in MAINTAINERs,
> 22 copyright matches)
> Alex Converse (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 32 copyright matches)
> Janne Grunau (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 24 copyright matches)
> Andreas Cadhalpun (over 400 commits in FFmpeg, 2 copyright matches)
>
just noting some people in the list have cut ties with this project and
would much rather not be involved in anything related to ffmpeg - as a rule
of thumb it's probably safe to omit inactive developers and inactive
founders from the list, in my opinion
--
Vittorio
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 12:11 ` Vittorio Giovara
@ 2023-11-09 15:40 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 16:39 ` Vittorio Giovara
0 siblings, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-09 15:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4174 bytes --]
On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:11:37AM -0500, Vittorio Giovara wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 6:55 AM Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
> wrote:
>
> > Fabrice Bellard (Founder of the project over 600 commits in FFmpeg)
> > Aman Karmani (17 authored commits in 2020-2023, recently active in
> > 2023-June and work all over the codebase)
> > Baptiste Coudurier (Pays for our fate server since forever, maintains 15
> > things in MAINTAINERs, is the the copyright of 56 files, over 1900 commits
> > in FFmpeg)
> > Moritz Barsnick (Member of the 2020 GA but was not on jbs list)
> > Lauri Kasanen (Linux / PowerPC maintainer)
> > Dale Curtis (14 commits in 2020 was in the 2020-GA)
> > Alexander Strasser (Root admin, just recently reported that he could not
> > vote even though he was in teh 2020-GA, 3 things in MAINTAINERs)
> > foo86 (maintainer and author of dca*, dolby_e*, dtsdec, s337m)
> > Huiwen Ren (8 matches in the codebase of his name, avs2* and
> > related things maintainer)
> > Martin Vignali (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2019 because of
> > hostility)
> > Lou Logan (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2020, also in the
> > 2020-GA but not on jbs list)
> > Matthieu Bouron (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, recently active in 2022, 5
> > entries in MAINTAINERs, 25 in copyrights)
> > Ruiling Song (vf_tonemap_opencl maintainer, added SIMD code to
> > various bits of code, last active in git in 2020)
> > John Stebbins (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, last active in git in
> > 2020, 1 copyright match)
> > Ting Fu (last active in April 2023, 24 commits in 2021-2023, )
> > Tobias Rapp (vf_readvitc mainatiner, last commit in Jul 2023, 88
> > commits in FFmpeg)
> > Shiyou Yin (MIPS & LoongArch maintainer, 24 matches for his name
> > in the source, last commit May 2023)
> > Reimar Döffinger (over 1400 commits in FFmpeg, root admin and last
> > commit in Oct 2023, 49 matches for his name in the codebase)
> > Aurelien Jacobs (over 1000 commits in FFmpeg, 13 entries in
> > MAINTAINERs, 70 copyright line matches)
> > Hendrik Leppkes (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 2 entries in MAINTAINERs,
> > 4 copyrights, last commit in Jul 2023)
> > Vitor Sessak (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 28 copyright matches)
> > Kostya Shishkov (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 162 copyright matches)
> > Ramiro Polla (over 600 commits in FFmpeg, 5 matches in MAINTAINERs,
> > 22 copyright matches)
> > Alex Converse (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 32 copyright matches)
> > Janne Grunau (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 24 copyright matches)
> > Andreas Cadhalpun (over 400 commits in FFmpeg, 2 copyright matches)
> >
>
> just noting some people in the list have cut ties with this project and
> would much rather not be involved in anything related to ffmpeg -
People who do not want to be in the GA should be ommitted, thats obvious
i agree with that of course.
> as a rule
> of thumb it's probably safe to omit inactive developers and inactive
> founders from the list, in my opinion
That i do not agree with.
For example iam inactive in SPI and i do NOT vote in SPI but i very
much want to maintain my ability to vote if a situation arises that matters.
Why ? FFmpeg has alot of money with SPI so I want to maintain my ability to
cast a vote if a special situation arrises.
if you flip this around. Some inactive contributors are very dependant
on FFmpeg in their jobs. I do not belive they want to have no say in
major decissions in FFmpeg.
Why did i include people who left due to hostility?
It was a simple thought. If you form a group of people who oppose
hostility thats more likely to reduce hostility than if you form a
group of people who have a thick enough skin to stay.
Thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
Let us carefully observe those good qualities wherein our enemies excel us
and endeavor to excel them, by avoiding what is faulty, and imitating what
is excellent in them. -- Plutarch
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 15:40 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-09 16:39 ` Vittorio Giovara
0 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Vittorio Giovara @ 2023-11-09 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 10:40 AM Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:11:37AM -0500, Vittorio Giovara wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 6:55 AM Michael Niedermayer <
> michael@niedermayer.cc>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Fabrice Bellard (Founder of the project over 600 commits in FFmpeg)
> > > Aman Karmani (17 authored commits in 2020-2023, recently active
> in
> > > 2023-June and work all over the codebase)
> > > Baptiste Coudurier (Pays for our fate server since forever, maintains
> 15
> > > things in MAINTAINERs, is the the copyright of 56 files, over 1900
> commits
> > > in FFmpeg)
> > > Moritz Barsnick (Member of the 2020 GA but was not on jbs list)
> > > Lauri Kasanen (Linux / PowerPC maintainer)
> > > Dale Curtis (14 commits in 2020 was in the 2020-GA)
> > > Alexander Strasser (Root admin, just recently reported that he could
> not
> > > vote even though he was in teh 2020-GA, 3 things in MAINTAINERs)
> > > foo86 (maintainer and author of dca*, dolby_e*, dtsdec,
> s337m)
> > > Huiwen Ren (8 matches in the codebase of his name, avs2* and
> > > related things maintainer)
> > > Martin Vignali (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2019 because of
> > > hostility)
> > > Lou Logan (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2020, also in
> the
> > > 2020-GA but not on jbs list)
> > > Matthieu Bouron (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, recently active in
> 2022, 5
> > > entries in MAINTAINERs, 25 in copyrights)
> > > Ruiling Song (vf_tonemap_opencl maintainer, added SIMD code to
> > > various bits of code, last active in git in 2020)
> > > John Stebbins (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, last active in git in
> > > 2020, 1 copyright match)
> > > Ting Fu (last active in April 2023, 24 commits in
> 2021-2023, )
> > > Tobias Rapp (vf_readvitc mainatiner, last commit in Jul 2023, 88
> > > commits in FFmpeg)
> > > Shiyou Yin (MIPS & LoongArch maintainer, 24 matches for his
> name
> > > in the source, last commit May 2023)
> > > Reimar Döffinger (over 1400 commits in FFmpeg, root admin and last
> > > commit in Oct 2023, 49 matches for his name in the codebase)
> > > Aurelien Jacobs (over 1000 commits in FFmpeg, 13 entries in
> > > MAINTAINERs, 70 copyright line matches)
> > > Hendrik Leppkes (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 2 entries in
> MAINTAINERs,
> > > 4 copyrights, last commit in Jul 2023)
> > > Vitor Sessak (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 28 copyright matches)
> > > Kostya Shishkov (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 162 copyright matches)
> > > Ramiro Polla (over 600 commits in FFmpeg, 5 matches in
> MAINTAINERs,
> > > 22 copyright matches)
> > > Alex Converse (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 32 copyright matches)
> > > Janne Grunau (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 24 copyright matches)
> > > Andreas Cadhalpun (over 400 commits in FFmpeg, 2 copyright matches)
> > >
> >
> > just noting some people in the list have cut ties with this project and
> > would much rather not be involved in anything related to ffmpeg -
>
> People who do not want to be in the GA should be ommitted, thats obvious
> i agree with that of course.
>
>
> > as a rule
> > of thumb it's probably safe to omit inactive developers and inactive
> > founders from the list, in my opinion
>
> That i do not agree with.
> For example iam inactive in SPI and i do NOT vote in SPI but i very
> much want to maintain my ability to vote if a situation arises that
> matters.
> Why ? FFmpeg has alot of money with SPI so I want to maintain my ability to
> cast a vote if a special situation arrises.
>
Right but you *are* maintaining an active interest in SPI because it
matters to you and the project, but your situation doesn't directly
translate to the people listed, who might consider being included
automatically as spam in the best case and offensive in the worst case.
if you flip this around. Some inactive contributors are very dependant
> on FFmpeg in their jobs. I do not belive they want to have no say in
> major decissions in FFmpeg.
>
I mean if they are "very dependent" maybe they should spend a minimum time
of "volunteer service" if they want to have a stake in voting matters.
Voting is a right but it has obligations too, and just diluting the GA with
inactive people (who might not even vote) won't do the project any good
> Why did i include people who left due to hostility?
> It was a simple thought. If you form a group of people who oppose
> hostility thats more likely to reduce hostility than if you form a
> group of people who have a thick enough skin to stay.
>
Sorry I cannot parse this sentence
As mentioned, in general we shouldn't just assume that people want the
extra baggage and responsibility of being part of the GA without the direct
involvement and candidacy, in my opinion.
--
Vittorio
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 11:55 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 12:11 ` Vittorio Giovara
@ 2023-11-09 12:14 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
2023-11-09 12:21 ` Anton Khirnov
` (3 subsequent siblings)
5 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Jean-Baptiste Kempf @ 2023-11-09 12:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Niedermayer, ffmpeg-devel
On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 12:55, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> If the current GA stays as it is, then i propose the following people
Most of those people have not been active for years.
Adding the people who were part of the GA before;
or are just under the threshold, but were active before;
or are part of the infra teams and packaging;
seem sane to add to the ballot.
But the others seem totally inactive in this community, even if they were added to MAINTAINERS file a long time ago.
And there are people who don't contribute, because their corporate sponsor is not employing them anymore.
Best,
--
Jean-Baptiste Kempf - President
+33 672 704 734
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 11:55 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 12:11 ` Vittorio Giovara
2023-11-09 12:14 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
@ 2023-11-09 12:21 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-09 12:24 ` James Almer
` (2 more replies)
2023-11-09 12:45 ` Paul B Mahol
` (2 subsequent siblings)
5 siblings, 3 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Anton Khirnov @ 2023-11-09 12:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 12:55:25)
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 10:44:12AM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> > As nobody expressed a preference, the vote will start next Monday
> > (2023-11-13). It should run for a week, and will be followed by TC/CC
> > elections.
> >
> > The only extra GA candidate I see proposed so far is Ronald. If anyone
> > wants to suggest further people, please do so in this thread ASAP.
>
> IMHO the question of the relation of the list of people who could vote
> in the last GA vote and the people who where in the general assembly
> in 2020 should be awnsered before further votes.
> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2023-November/316609.html
As far as I can tell, the voter list in the last vote should be the same
as the GA from 2020, except for the extra members whose voting rights
expire after 2 years.
Do you dispute that?
> If the current GA stays as it is, then i propose the following people
> (this list was quickly made and certainly has omisions and possibly errors,
> check anything thats important to you!)
>
> The presumed 2020 General assembly as well as people who have subtantial
> contributions over the lifetime of the project where the source of this list
> Ting Fu (last active in April 2023, 24 commits in 2021-2023, )
He actually is in the GA, but his Intel mailbox bounces.
> Fabrice Bellard (Founder of the project over 600 commits in FFmpeg)
> Aman Karmani (17 authored commits in 2020-2023, recently active in 2023-June and work all over the codebase)
> Baptiste Coudurier (Pays for our fate server since forever, maintains 15 things in MAINTAINERs, is the the copyright of 56 files, over 1900 commits in FFmpeg)
> Moritz Barsnick (Member of the 2020 GA but was not on jbs list)
> Lauri Kasanen (Linux / PowerPC maintainer)
> Dale Curtis (14 commits in 2020 was in the 2020-GA)
> Alexander Strasser (Root admin, just recently reported that he could not vote even though he was in teh 2020-GA, 3 things in MAINTAINERs)
> foo86 (maintainer and author of dca*, dolby_e*, dtsdec, s337m)
> Huiwen Ren (8 matches in the codebase of his name, avs2* and related things maintainer)
> Martin Vignali (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2019 because of hostility)
> Lou Logan (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2020, also in the 2020-GA but not on jbs list)
> Matthieu Bouron (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, recently active in 2022, 5 entries in MAINTAINERs, 25 in copyrights)
> Ruiling Song (vf_tonemap_opencl maintainer, added SIMD code to various bits of code, last active in git in 2020)
> John Stebbins (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, last active in git in 2020, 1 copyright match)
> Tobias Rapp (vf_readvitc mainatiner, last commit in Jul 2023, 88 commits in FFmpeg)
> Shiyou Yin (MIPS & LoongArch maintainer, 24 matches for his name in the source, last commit May 2023)
> Reimar Döffinger (over 1400 commits in FFmpeg, root admin and last commit in Oct 2023, 49 matches for his name in the codebase)
> Aurelien Jacobs (over 1000 commits in FFmpeg, 13 entries in MAINTAINERs, 70 copyright line matches)
> Hendrik Leppkes (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 2 entries in MAINTAINERs, 4 copyrights, last commit in Jul 2023)
> Vitor Sessak (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 28 copyright matches)
> Kostya Shishkov (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 162 copyright matches)
> Ramiro Polla (over 600 commits in FFmpeg, 5 matches in MAINTAINERs, 22 copyright matches)
> Alex Converse (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 32 copyright matches)
> Janne Grunau (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 24 copyright matches)
> Andreas Cadhalpun (over 400 commits in FFmpeg, 2 copyright matches)
Sending voting emails to people who have not had any contact with the
project for years, can be regarded as spamming. I think there should be
some confirmation that these people are actually interested in having
voting rights.
--
Anton Khirnov
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 12:21 ` Anton Khirnov
@ 2023-11-09 12:24 ` James Almer
2023-11-09 12:28 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-10 10:57 ` Hendrik Leppkes
2023-11-09 16:21 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 16:50 ` Michael Niedermayer
2 siblings, 2 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: James Almer @ 2023-11-09 12:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ffmpeg-devel
On 11/9/2023 9:21 AM, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 12:55:25)
>> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 10:44:12AM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
>>> As nobody expressed a preference, the vote will start next Monday
>>> (2023-11-13). It should run for a week, and will be followed by TC/CC
>>> elections.
>>>
>>> The only extra GA candidate I see proposed so far is Ronald. If anyone
>>> wants to suggest further people, please do so in this thread ASAP.
>>
>> IMHO the question of the relation of the list of people who could vote
>> in the last GA vote and the people who where in the general assembly
>> in 2020 should be awnsered before further votes.
>> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2023-November/316609.html
>
> As far as I can tell, the voter list in the last vote should be the same
> as the GA from 2020, except for the extra members whose voting rights
> expire after 2 years.
>
> Do you dispute that?
>
>> If the current GA stays as it is, then i propose the following people
>> (this list was quickly made and certainly has omisions and possibly errors,
>> check anything thats important to you!)
>>
>> The presumed 2020 General assembly as well as people who have subtantial
>> contributions over the lifetime of the project where the source of this list
>
>> Ting Fu (last active in April 2023, 24 commits in 2021-2023, )
>
> He actually is in the GA, but his Intel mailbox bounces.
>
>> Fabrice Bellard (Founder of the project over 600 commits in FFmpeg)
>> Aman Karmani (17 authored commits in 2020-2023, recently active in 2023-June and work all over the codebase)
>> Baptiste Coudurier (Pays for our fate server since forever, maintains 15 things in MAINTAINERs, is the the copyright of 56 files, over 1900 commits in FFmpeg)
>> Moritz Barsnick (Member of the 2020 GA but was not on jbs list)
>> Lauri Kasanen (Linux / PowerPC maintainer)
>> Dale Curtis (14 commits in 2020 was in the 2020-GA)
>> Alexander Strasser (Root admin, just recently reported that he could not vote even though he was in teh 2020-GA, 3 things in MAINTAINERs)
>> foo86 (maintainer and author of dca*, dolby_e*, dtsdec, s337m)
>> Huiwen Ren (8 matches in the codebase of his name, avs2* and related things maintainer)
>> Martin Vignali (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2019 because of hostility)
>> Lou Logan (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2020, also in the 2020-GA but not on jbs list)
>> Matthieu Bouron (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, recently active in 2022, 5 entries in MAINTAINERs, 25 in copyrights)
>> Ruiling Song (vf_tonemap_opencl maintainer, added SIMD code to various bits of code, last active in git in 2020)
>> John Stebbins (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, last active in git in 2020, 1 copyright match)
>> Tobias Rapp (vf_readvitc mainatiner, last commit in Jul 2023, 88 commits in FFmpeg)
>> Shiyou Yin (MIPS & LoongArch maintainer, 24 matches for his name in the source, last commit May 2023)
>> Reimar Döffinger (over 1400 commits in FFmpeg, root admin and last commit in Oct 2023, 49 matches for his name in the codebase)
>> Aurelien Jacobs (over 1000 commits in FFmpeg, 13 entries in MAINTAINERs, 70 copyright line matches)
>> Hendrik Leppkes (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 2 entries in MAINTAINERs, 4 copyrights, last commit in Jul 2023)
>> Vitor Sessak (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 28 copyright matches)
>> Kostya Shishkov (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 162 copyright matches)
>> Ramiro Polla (over 600 commits in FFmpeg, 5 matches in MAINTAINERs, 22 copyright matches)
>> Alex Converse (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 32 copyright matches)
>> Janne Grunau (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 24 copyright matches)
>> Andreas Cadhalpun (over 400 commits in FFmpeg, 2 copyright matches)
>
> Sending voting emails to people who have not had any contact with the
> project for years, can be regarded as spamming. I think there should be
> some confirmation that these people are actually interested in having
> voting rights.
Hendrik Leppkes and Reimar Döffinger are active, at least. I agree they
should be in the GA.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 12:24 ` James Almer
@ 2023-11-09 12:28 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-10 12:50 ` Reimar Döffinger
2023-11-10 10:57 ` Hendrik Leppkes
1 sibling, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Anton Khirnov @ 2023-11-09 12:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
Quoting James Almer (2023-11-09 13:24:45)
> Hendrik Leppkes and Reimar Döffinger are active, at least. I agree they
> should be in the GA.
Right, I did not mean to imply ALL the people in the above list are
inactive. But many are.
--
Anton Khirnov
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 12:28 ` Anton Khirnov
@ 2023-11-10 12:50 ` Reimar Döffinger
0 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Reimar Döffinger @ 2023-11-10 12:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
Hi!
> On 9 Nov 2023, at 13:28, Anton Khirnov <anton@khirnov.net> wrote:
>
> Quoting James Almer (2023-11-09 13:24:45)
>> Hendrik Leppkes and Reimar Döffinger are active, at least. I agree they
>> should be in the GA.
>
> Right, I did not mean to imply ALL the people in the above list are
> inactive. But many are.
Yes, I am still active and would be interested in having a voice/vote.
But I'll have to bluntly admit I do not have the time or the stomach
for many of the discussions on the list, which is why I've not acted
on this in the past.
Best regards,
Reimar
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 12:24 ` James Almer
2023-11-09 12:28 ` Anton Khirnov
@ 2023-11-10 10:57 ` Hendrik Leppkes
1 sibling, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Hendrik Leppkes @ 2023-11-10 10:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 1:24 PM James Almer <jamrial@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/9/2023 9:21 AM, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> > Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 12:55:25)
> >> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 10:44:12AM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> >>> As nobody expressed a preference, the vote will start next Monday
> >>> (2023-11-13). It should run for a week, and will be followed by TC/CC
> >>> elections.
> >>>
> >>> The only extra GA candidate I see proposed so far is Ronald. If anyone
> >>> wants to suggest further people, please do so in this thread ASAP.
> >>
> >> IMHO the question of the relation of the list of people who could vote
> >> in the last GA vote and the people who where in the general assembly
> >> in 2020 should be awnsered before further votes.
> >> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2023-November/316609.html
> >
> > As far as I can tell, the voter list in the last vote should be the same
> > as the GA from 2020, except for the extra members whose voting rights
> > expire after 2 years.
> >
> > Do you dispute that?
> >
> >> If the current GA stays as it is, then i propose the following people
> >> (this list was quickly made and certainly has omisions and possibly errors,
> >> check anything thats important to you!)
> >>
> >> The presumed 2020 General assembly as well as people who have subtantial
> >> contributions over the lifetime of the project where the source of this list
> >
> >> Ting Fu (last active in April 2023, 24 commits in 2021-2023, )
> >
> > He actually is in the GA, but his Intel mailbox bounces.
> >
> >> Fabrice Bellard (Founder of the project over 600 commits in FFmpeg)
> >> Aman Karmani (17 authored commits in 2020-2023, recently active in 2023-June and work all over the codebase)
> >> Baptiste Coudurier (Pays for our fate server since forever, maintains 15 things in MAINTAINERs, is the the copyright of 56 files, over 1900 commits in FFmpeg)
> >> Moritz Barsnick (Member of the 2020 GA but was not on jbs list)
> >> Lauri Kasanen (Linux / PowerPC maintainer)
> >> Dale Curtis (14 commits in 2020 was in the 2020-GA)
> >> Alexander Strasser (Root admin, just recently reported that he could not vote even though he was in teh 2020-GA, 3 things in MAINTAINERs)
> >> foo86 (maintainer and author of dca*, dolby_e*, dtsdec, s337m)
> >> Huiwen Ren (8 matches in the codebase of his name, avs2* and related things maintainer)
> >> Martin Vignali (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2019 because of hostility)
> >> Lou Logan (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2020, also in the 2020-GA but not on jbs list)
> >> Matthieu Bouron (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, recently active in 2022, 5 entries in MAINTAINERs, 25 in copyrights)
> >> Ruiling Song (vf_tonemap_opencl maintainer, added SIMD code to various bits of code, last active in git in 2020)
> >> John Stebbins (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, last active in git in 2020, 1 copyright match)
> >> Tobias Rapp (vf_readvitc mainatiner, last commit in Jul 2023, 88 commits in FFmpeg)
> >> Shiyou Yin (MIPS & LoongArch maintainer, 24 matches for his name in the source, last commit May 2023)
> >> Reimar Döffinger (over 1400 commits in FFmpeg, root admin and last commit in Oct 2023, 49 matches for his name in the codebase)
> >> Aurelien Jacobs (over 1000 commits in FFmpeg, 13 entries in MAINTAINERs, 70 copyright line matches)
> >> Hendrik Leppkes (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 2 entries in MAINTAINERs, 4 copyrights, last commit in Jul 2023)
> >> Vitor Sessak (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 28 copyright matches)
> >> Kostya Shishkov (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 162 copyright matches)
> >> Ramiro Polla (over 600 commits in FFmpeg, 5 matches in MAINTAINERs, 22 copyright matches)
> >> Alex Converse (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 32 copyright matches)
> >> Janne Grunau (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 24 copyright matches)
> >> Andreas Cadhalpun (over 400 commits in FFmpeg, 2 copyright matches)
> >
> > Sending voting emails to people who have not had any contact with the
> > project for years, can be regarded as spamming. I think there should be
> > some confirmation that these people are actually interested in having
> > voting rights.
>
> Hendrik Leppkes and Reimar Döffinger are active, at least. I agree they
> should be in the GA.
Do I just reply here and say its OK to be considered, then?
I haven't been sending as many patches recently as I did years ago,
which happened to just die off in the period considered for the first
GA.
I still maintain my own open-source project based on ffmpeg, as well
as using it in my dayjob.
I also host a variety of Windows FATE boxes, and maintain some Windows
hwaccel components.
- Hendrik
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 12:21 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-09 12:24 ` James Almer
@ 2023-11-09 16:21 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 16:36 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
2023-11-09 17:06 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-09 16:50 ` Michael Niedermayer
2 siblings, 2 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-09 16:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
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On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 01:21:13PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 12:55:25)
> > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 10:44:12AM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> > > As nobody expressed a preference, the vote will start next Monday
> > > (2023-11-13). It should run for a week, and will be followed by TC/CC
> > > elections.
> > >
> > > The only extra GA candidate I see proposed so far is Ronald. If anyone
> > > wants to suggest further people, please do so in this thread ASAP.
> >
> > IMHO the question of the relation of the list of people who could vote
> > in the last GA vote and the people who where in the general assembly
> > in 2020 should be awnsered before further votes.
> > https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2023-November/316609.html
>
> As far as I can tell, the voter list in the last vote should be the same
> as the GA from 2020, except for the extra members whose voting rights
> expire after 2 years.
>
> Do you dispute that?
There are at least 3 issues here
* The first and maybe the biggest, is that our vote superviser can reply to
mails within 20min (like in this thread here) but is not replying to a simple
question within days where the list of voters comes from he used and how it
relates to the 2020 GA. It gives one the feeling he has some sort of
difficulty with awnsering that question
you took a guess here and replied, and i appreciate that. But really JB
choose this list and also the one in 2020. Only he can explain where these
lists come from and how they relate.
* The 2nd issue is that there are rules how to change the GA over time
like that after 2 years there needs to a confirmation AND that the
other members represent the "active" developers in the last 36 months.
I can see an argument to leave the 2020 GA untouched and use it as is
I can also see an argument to update it, and exactly this was done in a
vote in 2021 by JB. Now we are here trying the 3rd variant of applying
only half the rules.
But whats more so, we actually are not. What you are doing here is
looking at what happened and trying to rationalize it, trying to find
an explanation for the list. Not stating upfront what this list is
IMO this is not acceptable for a vote. Uhm we found this list, lets see
where that might have come from ....
* I know for a fact that at least zane was not in the 2020 GA as i talked
with him and i know he did cast a vote in 2023 because again he told me.
So even if you partially apply the rules these lists do not match
will write a seperate reply to the 2nd part of your mail
[...]
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
Frequently ignored answer#1 FFmpeg bugs should be sent to our bugtracker. User
questions about the command line tools should be sent to the ffmpeg-user ML.
And questions about how to use libav* should be sent to the libav-user ML.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 16:21 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-09 16:36 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
2023-11-09 17:24 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 17:06 ` Anton Khirnov
1 sibling, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Jean-Baptiste Kempf @ 2023-11-09 16:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ffmpeg-devel
On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 17:21, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 01:21:13PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
>> Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 12:55:25)
>> > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 10:44:12AM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
>> > > As nobody expressed a preference, the vote will start next Monday
>> > > (2023-11-13). It should run for a week, and will be followed by TC/CC
>> > > elections.
>> > >
>> > > The only extra GA candidate I see proposed so far is Ronald. If anyone
>> > > wants to suggest further people, please do so in this thread ASAP.
>> >
>> > IMHO the question of the relation of the list of people who could vote
>> > in the last GA vote and the people who where in the general assembly
>> > in 2020 should be awnsered before further votes.
>> > https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2023-November/316609.html
>>
>> As far as I can tell, the voter list in the last vote should be the same
>> as the GA from 2020, except for the extra members whose voting rights
>> expire after 2 years.
>>
>> Do you dispute that?
>
> There are at least 3 issues here
>
> * The first and maybe the biggest, is that our vote superviser can reply to
> mails within 20min (like in this thread here) but is not replying to a simple
> question within days where the list of voters comes from he used and how it
WTF are you talking about ?
WTF are you attacking me on my email response time?
> relates to the 2020 GA. It gives one the feeling he has some sort of
> difficulty with awnsering that question
> you took a guess here and replied, and i appreciate that. But really JB
> choose this list and also the one in 2020. Only he can explain where these
I choose nothing. I got the list that was provided to me for the first vote, after the script was written.
I did not write the script, I did not run the script.
Would you stop smearing me?
This is absolutely unacceptable.
A contrario from you, I am not part of the GA and I don’t have voting rights…
> * The 2nd issue is that there are rules how to change the GA over time
No they don’t.
We discussed and voted a way, and after years it seems it was not clear enough for some people.
> Now we are here trying the 3rd variant of applying
> only half the rules.
So what? The previous way was not clear enough for people, so we vote for a new way.
And it was accepted quite largely against the other options.
> Not stating upfront what this list is
> IMO this is not acceptable for a vote.
How so? Do you go to and see the list of all the voters in Austria before doing a vote ?
Especially, here, it is to bootstrap a new way of voting.
If the vote was close, maybe there could be discussion, but here, this is not the case.
And stop smearing me in the mud.
--
Jean-Baptiste Kempf - President
+33 672 704 734
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 16:36 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
@ 2023-11-09 17:24 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 17:31 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
0 siblings, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-09 17:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
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On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 05:36:10PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 17:21, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 01:21:13PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> >> Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 12:55:25)
> >> > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 10:44:12AM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> >> > > As nobody expressed a preference, the vote will start next Monday
> >> > > (2023-11-13). It should run for a week, and will be followed by TC/CC
> >> > > elections.
> >> > >
> >> > > The only extra GA candidate I see proposed so far is Ronald. If anyone
> >> > > wants to suggest further people, please do so in this thread ASAP.
> >> >
> >> > IMHO the question of the relation of the list of people who could vote
> >> > in the last GA vote and the people who where in the general assembly
> >> > in 2020 should be awnsered before further votes.
> >> > https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2023-November/316609.html
> >>
> >> As far as I can tell, the voter list in the last vote should be the same
> >> as the GA from 2020, except for the extra members whose voting rights
> >> expire after 2 years.
> >>
> >> Do you dispute that?
> >
> > There are at least 3 issues here
> >
> > * The first and maybe the biggest, is that our vote superviser can reply to
> > mails within 20min (like in this thread here) but is not replying to a simple
> > question within days where the list of voters comes from he used and how it
>
> WTF are you talking about ?
> WTF are you attacking me on my email response time?
>
> > relates to the 2020 GA. It gives one the feeling he has some sort of
> > difficulty with awnsering that question
> > you took a guess here and replied, and i appreciate that. But really JB
> > choose this list and also the one in 2020. Only he can explain where these
>
> I choose nothing. I got the list that was provided to me for the first vote, after the script was written.
>
> I did not write the script, I did not run the script.
>
> Would you stop smearing me?
>
> This is absolutely unacceptable.
As the vote superviser you are responsible for the vote.
your reaction is IMHO unacceptable.
theres a list of voters in 2020 and 2023
iam asking for how these 2 lists relate and instead of awnsering that
you are talking about everything else
i will seperately reply to your question about voting in austria as its
off topic here
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
Concerning the gods, I have no means of knowing whether they exist or not
or of what sort they may be, because of the obscurity of the subject, and
the brevity of human life -- Protagoras
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 17:24 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-09 17:31 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
2023-11-09 17:50 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-10 11:33 ` Michael Niedermayer
0 siblings, 2 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Jean-Baptiste Kempf @ 2023-11-09 17:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ffmpeg-devel
On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 18:24, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> theres a list of voters in 2020 and 2023
The list of voters in 2020 comes from the script written by Josh (IIRC?) and run by Thilo (?) IIRC when Thilo installed CIVS.
It quite matches the gitlog.
The list was reused for the vote, and now the new list was written by Anton with the new script.
Whatever the old script was, and how wrong it was, I don't think it would change the result of the re-bootstrapping vote.
And now we have a clean list for the extra members of the GA.
--
Jean-Baptiste Kempf - President
+33 672 704 734
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 17:31 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
@ 2023-11-09 17:50 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 18:09 ` Thilo Borgmann via ffmpeg-devel
2023-11-10 11:33 ` Michael Niedermayer
1 sibling, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-09 17:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
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On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 06:31:13PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 18:24, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > theres a list of voters in 2020 and 2023
>
> The list of voters in 2020 comes from the script written by Josh (IIRC?) and run by Thilo (?) IIRC when Thilo installed CIVS.
> It quite matches the gitlog.
>
> The list was reused for the vote,
Thats not possible
multiple people on this list did not have 20 commits at the time the list must have been made
Example: Gautam Ramakrishnan has 20 commits after 2020 Jul 16
but the TC/CC votes in 2020 where prior to that
(and i already mentioned zane)
So I do not see how the list of names you posted can be the same list as
the one used in 2020
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
The educated differ from the uneducated as much as the living from the
dead. -- Aristotle
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 17:50 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-09 18:09 ` Thilo Borgmann via ffmpeg-devel
0 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Thilo Borgmann via ffmpeg-devel @ 2023-11-09 18:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ffmpeg-devel; +Cc: Thilo Borgmann
Am 09.11.23 um 18:50 schrieb Michael Niedermayer:
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 06:31:13PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
>> On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 18:24, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
>>> theres a list of voters in 2020 and 2023
>>
>> The list of voters in 2020 comes from the script written by Josh (IIRC?) and run by Thilo (?) IIRC when Thilo installed CIVS.
>> It quite matches the gitlog.
>>
>> The list was reused for the vote,
>
> Thats not possible
> multiple people on this list did not have 20 commits at the time the list must have been made
>
> Example: Gautam Ramakrishnan has 20 commits after 2020 Jul 16
> but the TC/CC votes in 2020 where prior to that
>
> (and i already mentioned zane)
>
> So I do not see how the list of names you posted can be the same list as
> the one used in 2020
The script came in by Josh [1].
The vote was run by JB [2].
In [2] the CIVS reported 49 authorized voters as JB mentioned in the mail.
Therefore, it cannot be the list of 51 voters JB provided in the corresponding thread [3].
Did the original list survive? Josh?
If not, we can go back in time and run the script again.
-Thilo
[1] https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2020-April/261323.html
[2] https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2020-June/265075.html
[3] https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2023-November/316594.html
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 17:31 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
2023-11-09 17:50 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-10 11:33 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-10 12:39 ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
1 sibling, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-10 11:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
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On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 06:31:13PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 18:24, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > theres a list of voters in 2020 and 2023
>
> The list of voters in 2020 comes from the script written by Josh (IIRC?) and run by Thilo (?) IIRC when Thilo installed CIVS.
> It quite matches the gitlog.
>
> The list was reused for the vote, and now the new list was written by Anton with the new script.
>
> Whatever the old script was, and how wrong it was, I don't think it would change the result of the re-bootstrapping vote.
> And now we have a clean list for the extra members of the GA.
For the record, josh posted his list on IRC yesterday, the link should be
in the logs. For GDPR pickiness ill not post the link here but i think the GDPR
allows such investigations without consent of the involved people.
<jdek> thilo: I only have an email from jb with the list I originally sent him as an attachment. https://XXX/Votes_2020.txt
The list does not match your list, for example Gautam is on your list
but not on joshs
So my question is still standing, can you explain how your list was created?
or where its from?
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
What does censorship reveal? It reveals fear. -- Julian Assange
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-10 11:33 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-10 12:39 ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
2023-11-10 13:04 ` Thilo Borgmann via ffmpeg-devel
2023-11-11 23:45 ` Michael Niedermayer
0 siblings, 2 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel @ 2023-11-10 12:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches; +Cc: Kieran Kunhya
> The list does not match your list, for example Gautam is on your list
> but not on joshs
>
> So my question is still standing, can you explain how your list was created?
> or where its from?
How was the list of your root admins created? Who decided they would be root?
Kieran
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-10 12:39 ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
@ 2023-11-10 13:04 ` Thilo Borgmann via ffmpeg-devel
2023-11-11 23:45 ` Michael Niedermayer
1 sibling, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Thilo Borgmann via ffmpeg-devel @ 2023-11-10 13:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ffmpeg-devel; +Cc: Thilo Borgmann
Am 10.11.23 um 13:39 schrieb Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel:
>> The list does not match your list, for example Gautam is on your list
>> but not on joshs
>>
>> So my question is still standing, can you explain how your list was created?
>> or where its from?
>
> How was the list of your root admins created? Who decided they would be root?
Unhelpful whataboutism.
-Thilo
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-10 12:39 ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
2023-11-10 13:04 ` Thilo Borgmann via ffmpeg-devel
@ 2023-11-11 23:45 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-11 23:49 ` Kieran Kunhya
2023-11-11 23:59 ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
1 sibling, 2 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-11 23:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
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On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 12:39:45PM +0000, Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel wrote:
> > The list does not match your list, for example Gautam is on your list
> > but not on joshs
> >
> > So my question is still standing, can you explain how your list was created?
> > or where its from?
>
> How was the list of your root admins created? Who decided they would be root?
while off topic and i think a flame bait.
the reason why iam one of the 6 root admins?
Because in the very distant past there was a fork that controlled the server and i had
no access and no server so i had to be admin on the new server. (but thats the past
and its better to let this rest, the war is long over and both sides have forgotten and
forgiven each other, please do not bring this up again, it was agreed by people of both
sides IIRC that this subject should be layed to rest!)
Also
git shortlog -s -n | egrep 'Michael Niedermayer|Kieran Kunhya'
28789 Michael Niedermayer
91 Kieran Kunhya
Why arpi ? because he provided the server, and risked his job for years
to host it. Not once complaining about the bandwidth. And the only thing he got
was hatred from the community. Only when his bosses all left and he was the only
one left knowing that this server existed did we had to move.
why Reimar ? because the server is hosting ffmpeg and MPlayer and reimar was at
the time the main developer / "leader" of MPlayer. And even today decades later
reimar is still available, if theres an emergency with the server iam confident
he can make some free time to help. I think thats impressive for a 0$ per year
payment. Reimar is also a major contributor and author of FFmpeg with over 1400
commits
why Alexander ? he has helped with many things, trac related, backups, and same as
reimar he is reliable, still around after 10+ years with 0$ per year payment
why Nikolay ? He is the guy from the new place that is hosting the new server,
he has helped with so many things, i cannot possibly enumerate them. From bringing up
patchwork, doing upgrades, the backup system both sw and a seperate system to host them,
and also doing all this for 0$ to us. Where else can you find a professional
admin doing that ?
Why Thresh ? He was and is admin in various places, someone with significant experience.
The most recent person to join. and the backup in case everyone else is unavalable.
Now i think thats a pretty decent team even if we have to pay people. But they all
cost us 0$
Why not you ?
I think you where root on the trac server you provided and where hosting for us.
but you kicked FFmpeg out and shut that down around the time of the
vote to ban carl. But its long ago and maybe i misremember. We had a backup
server and recovered with noone noticing the trac server moved.
(now we do not have a backup server anymore)
You have extensive knowledge in the broadcast area, and i have often
found your tweets funny. Iam not sure why you are sometimes so
aggressive/hostile
The thing is if everyone currently in FFmpeg would be working together not
only would we all enjoy working in FFmpeg alot more it just would be better
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
If a bugfix only changes things apparently unrelated to the bug with no
further explanation, that is a good sign that the bugfix is wrong.
[-- Attachment #1.2: signature.asc --]
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-11 23:45 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-11 23:49 ` Kieran Kunhya
2023-11-11 23:59 ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
1 sibling, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Kieran Kunhya @ 2023-11-11 23:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
> I think you where root on the trac server you provided and where hosting
> for us.
> but you kicked FFmpeg out and shut that down around the time of the
> vote to ban carl. But its long ago and maybe i misremember. We had a backup
> server and recovered with noone noticing the trac server moved.
> (now we do not have a backup server anymore)
>
This is a completely false allegation to make especially if you misremember.
Reported to cc.
Kieran
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-11 23:45 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-11 23:49 ` Kieran Kunhya
@ 2023-11-11 23:59 ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
1 sibling, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel @ 2023-11-11 23:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches; +Cc: Kieran Kunhya
On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 11:45 PM Michael Niedermayer
<michael@niedermayer.cc> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 12:39:45PM +0000, Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel wrote:
> > > The list does not match your list, for example Gautam is on your list
> > > but not on joshs
> > >
> > > So my question is still standing, can you explain how your list was created?
> > > or where its from?
> >
> > How was the list of your root admins created? Who decided they would be root?
>
> while off topic and i think a flame bait.
Not off topic at all. You complain about irrelevant minutae of the
election and the election process, yet root admin access is controlled
entirely by you. And the latter is ok but the former in your mind is
not.
I do not want to be root. I host quite a bit of other non public
facing stuff for the project.
Regards,
Kieran Kunhya
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 16:21 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 16:36 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
@ 2023-11-09 17:06 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-09 17:39 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 17:39 ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
1 sibling, 2 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Anton Khirnov @ 2023-11-09 17:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 17:21:12)
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 01:21:13PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> > As far as I can tell, the voter list in the last vote should be the same
> > as the GA from 2020, except for the extra members whose voting rights
> > expire after 2 years.
> >
> > Do you dispute that?
>
> There are at least 3 issues here
>
> * The first and maybe the biggest, is that our vote superviser can reply to
> mails within 20min (like in this thread here) but is not replying to a simple
> question within days where the list of voters comes from he used and how it
> relates to the 2020 GA. It gives one the feeling he has some sort of
> difficulty with awnsering that question
> you took a guess here and replied, and i appreciate that. But really JB
> choose this list and also the one in 2020. Only he can explain where these
> lists come from and how they relate.
JB did explain where the list comes from [1] - it was generated by the
script that is now in our tree. Nobody disputed it in 2020.
> * I know for a fact that at least zane was not in the 2020 GA as i talked
> with him and i know he did cast a vote in 2023 because again he told me.
> So even if you partially apply the rules these lists do not match
Zane had 30 commits in July 2020, so he SHOULD have been on the list. If
he wasn't, then it was a mistake in 2020.
> * The 2nd issue is that there are rules how to change the GA over time
> like that after 2 years there needs to a confirmation AND that the
> other members represent the "active" developers in the last 36 months.
> I can see an argument to leave the 2020 GA untouched and use it as is
> I can also see an argument to update it, and exactly this was done in a
> vote in 2021 by JB. Now we are here trying the 3rd variant of applying
> only half the rules.
> But whats more so, we actually are not. What you are doing here is
> looking at what happened and trying to rationalize it, trying to find
> an explanation for the list. Not stating upfront what this list is
> IMO this is not acceptable for a vote. Uhm we found this list, lets see
> where that might have come from ....
To be honest, it very much seems to me that you are trying to bikeshed
the process to death. Yes, it is imperfect, but that is to be expected
given we've only used it a few times so far, and the last time was over
2 years ago. What we are doing here is trying to clarify the rules so
that we actually can vote with some regularity.
In the vote we just had, option A won its contests against B/C/D by
17/7, 23/1, and 17/7, respectively. While it is possible that the list
used was not entirely correct (also depending on
the intepretation of the rules), I see no reason to think it was
incorrect in 10 people, which is what you'd need to have a chance of
getting a different result.
[1] http://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2020-June/264732.html
--
Anton Khirnov
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 17:06 ` Anton Khirnov
@ 2023-11-09 17:39 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 18:12 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-09 17:39 ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
1 sibling, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-09 17:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4025 bytes --]
On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 06:06:16PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 17:21:12)
> > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 01:21:13PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> > > As far as I can tell, the voter list in the last vote should be the same
> > > as the GA from 2020, except for the extra members whose voting rights
> > > expire after 2 years.
> > >
> > > Do you dispute that?
> >
> > There are at least 3 issues here
> >
> > * The first and maybe the biggest, is that our vote superviser can reply to
> > mails within 20min (like in this thread here) but is not replying to a simple
> > question within days where the list of voters comes from he used and how it
> > relates to the 2020 GA. It gives one the feeling he has some sort of
> > difficulty with awnsering that question
> > you took a guess here and replied, and i appreciate that. But really JB
> > choose this list and also the one in 2020. Only he can explain where these
> > lists come from and how they relate.
>
> JB did explain where the list comes from [1] - it was generated by the
> script that is now in our tree. Nobody disputed it in 2020.
>
> > * I know for a fact that at least zane was not in the 2020 GA as i talked
> > with him and i know he did cast a vote in 2023 because again he told me.
> > So even if you partially apply the rules these lists do not match
>
> Zane had 30 commits in July 2020, so he SHOULD have been on the list. If
> he wasn't, then it was a mistake in 2020.
the 2020 GA list cannot have been created in July 2020 because there where
votes prior that used it.
>
> > * The 2nd issue is that there are rules how to change the GA over time
> > like that after 2 years there needs to a confirmation AND that the
> > other members represent the "active" developers in the last 36 months.
> > I can see an argument to leave the 2020 GA untouched and use it as is
> > I can also see an argument to update it, and exactly this was done in a
> > vote in 2021 by JB. Now we are here trying the 3rd variant of applying
> > only half the rules.
> > But whats more so, we actually are not. What you are doing here is
> > looking at what happened and trying to rationalize it, trying to find
> > an explanation for the list. Not stating upfront what this list is
> > IMO this is not acceptable for a vote. Uhm we found this list, lets see
> > where that might have come from ....
>
> To be honest, it very much seems to me that you are trying to bikeshed
> the process to death. Yes, it is imperfect, but that is to be expected
> given we've only used it a few times so far, and the last time was over
> 2 years ago. What we are doing here is trying to clarify the rules so
> that we actually can vote with some regularity.
Is it bikesheding if 2 lists that are supposed to be the same differ in
multiple entries ?
these are lists with roughly 50 entries, now we _know_ 2 people differ
but there where 3 on the extra voters list so really 4 differ almost certainly
thats roughly 10% of the voters are wrong.
Thats not bikesheding IMO. We arent talking about 1 voter in hundreads.
I do want to know what happened here and want to have this not happen
again. if i offend people with that investigation then so be it
>
> In the vote we just had, option A won its contests against B/C/D by
> 17/7, 23/1, and 17/7, respectively. While it is possible that the list
> used was not entirely correct (also depending on
> the intepretation of the rules), I see no reason to think it was
> incorrect in 10 people, which is what you'd need to have a chance of
> getting a different result.
Its not just this vote, its that we need to understand what happened here
so we can prevent this from happening again
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
Nations do behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives.
-- Abba Eban
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 17:39 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-09 18:12 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-09 18:50 ` Michael Niedermayer
0 siblings, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Anton Khirnov @ 2023-11-09 18:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 18:39:23)
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 06:06:16PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> > Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 17:21:12)
> > > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 01:21:13PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> > > > As far as I can tell, the voter list in the last vote should be the same
> > > > as the GA from 2020, except for the extra members whose voting rights
> > > > expire after 2 years.
> > > >
> > > > Do you dispute that?
> > >
> > > There are at least 3 issues here
> > >
> > > * The first and maybe the biggest, is that our vote superviser can reply to
> > > mails within 20min (like in this thread here) but is not replying to a simple
> > > question within days where the list of voters comes from he used and how it
> > > relates to the 2020 GA. It gives one the feeling he has some sort of
> > > difficulty with awnsering that question
> > > you took a guess here and replied, and i appreciate that. But really JB
> > > choose this list and also the one in 2020. Only he can explain where these
> > > lists come from and how they relate.
> >
> > JB did explain where the list comes from [1] - it was generated by the
> > script that is now in our tree. Nobody disputed it in 2020.
> >
> > > * I know for a fact that at least zane was not in the 2020 GA as i talked
> > > with him and i know he did cast a vote in 2023 because again he told me.
> > > So even if you partially apply the rules these lists do not match
> >
> > Zane had 30 commits in July 2020, so he SHOULD have been on the list. If
> > he wasn't, then it was a mistake in 2020.
>
> the 2020 GA list cannot have been created in July 2020 because there where
> votes prior that used it.
According to my mailbox, the vote on extra members was started on
2020-06-18. TC/CC election vote was started on 2020-07-12. Zane had 29
commits as of the former, and 30 as of the latter. In either case he
should have been on the list.
With what you told us so far, it is entirely possible he was on the
original list, but
* misremembered about not receiving the vote link, or
* did not get the email because of delivery issues (we had them even now
during the first attempt to initiate the vote).
> >
> > > * The 2nd issue is that there are rules how to change the GA over time
> > > like that after 2 years there needs to a confirmation AND that the
> > > other members represent the "active" developers in the last 36 months.
> > > I can see an argument to leave the 2020 GA untouched and use it as is
> > > I can also see an argument to update it, and exactly this was done in a
> > > vote in 2021 by JB. Now we are here trying the 3rd variant of applying
> > > only half the rules.
> > > But whats more so, we actually are not. What you are doing here is
> > > looking at what happened and trying to rationalize it, trying to find
> > > an explanation for the list. Not stating upfront what this list is
> > > IMO this is not acceptable for a vote. Uhm we found this list, lets see
> > > where that might have come from ....
> >
> > To be honest, it very much seems to me that you are trying to bikeshed
> > the process to death. Yes, it is imperfect, but that is to be expected
> > given we've only used it a few times so far, and the last time was over
> > 2 years ago. What we are doing here is trying to clarify the rules so
> > that we actually can vote with some regularity.
>
> Is it bikesheding if 2 lists that are supposed to be the same differ in
> multiple entries ?
It is the way you are doing it, with all these "just asking questions"
and vague accusations of impropriety.
> these are lists with roughly 50 entries, now we _know_ 2 people differ
We don't. You only mention one, whom I adress above. Who is the second?
> but there where 3 on the extra voters list so really 4 differ almost certainly
I do not understand this math.
> thats roughly 10% of the voters are wrong.
> Thats not bikesheding IMO. We arent talking about 1 voter in hundreads.
Even if this was true (which I don't think is supported by evidence so
far), it's still less than half of the minimum needed to change the
result.
> I do want to know what happened here and want to have this not happen
> again. if i offend people with that investigation then so be it
>
>
> >
> > In the vote we just had, option A won its contests against B/C/D by
> > 17/7, 23/1, and 17/7, respectively. While it is possible that the list
> > used was not entirely correct (also depending on
> > the intepretation of the rules), I see no reason to think it was
> > incorrect in 10 people, which is what you'd need to have a chance of
> > getting a different result.
>
> Its not just this vote, its that we need to understand what happened here
> so we can prevent this from happening again
What happened is very clear to me. The process was bikeshod to death by
endless discussions and concerns, the script for generating the list was
not pushed into the main tree, and so the process for generating the
list remained obscure.
We don't need to "understand what happened", we need to define a clear
process, which is exactly what we are trying to do with these votes. If
you want to help, help with that.
--
Anton Khirnov
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 18:12 ` Anton Khirnov
@ 2023-11-09 18:50 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 19:15 ` Anton Khirnov
0 siblings, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-09 18:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5578 bytes --]
On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:12:24PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 18:39:23)
> > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 06:06:16PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> > > Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 17:21:12)
> > > > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 01:21:13PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> > > > > As far as I can tell, the voter list in the last vote should be the same
> > > > > as the GA from 2020, except for the extra members whose voting rights
> > > > > expire after 2 years.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you dispute that?
> > > >
> > > > There are at least 3 issues here
> > > >
> > > > * The first and maybe the biggest, is that our vote superviser can reply to
> > > > mails within 20min (like in this thread here) but is not replying to a simple
> > > > question within days where the list of voters comes from he used and how it
> > > > relates to the 2020 GA. It gives one the feeling he has some sort of
> > > > difficulty with awnsering that question
> > > > you took a guess here and replied, and i appreciate that. But really JB
> > > > choose this list and also the one in 2020. Only he can explain where these
> > > > lists come from and how they relate.
> > >
> > > JB did explain where the list comes from [1] - it was generated by the
> > > script that is now in our tree. Nobody disputed it in 2020.
> > >
> > > > * I know for a fact that at least zane was not in the 2020 GA as i talked
> > > > with him and i know he did cast a vote in 2023 because again he told me.
> > > > So even if you partially apply the rules these lists do not match
> > >
> > > Zane had 30 commits in July 2020, so he SHOULD have been on the list. If
> > > he wasn't, then it was a mistake in 2020.
> >
> > the 2020 GA list cannot have been created in July 2020 because there where
> > votes prior that used it.
>
> According to my mailbox, the vote on extra members was started on
> 2020-06-18. TC/CC election vote was started on 2020-07-12. Zane had 29
> commits as of the former, and 30 as of the latter. In either case he
> should have been on the list.
>
> With what you told us so far, it is entirely possible he was on the
> original list, but
> * misremembered about not receiving the vote link, or
> * did not get the email because of delivery issues (we had them even now
> during the first attempt to initiate the vote).
And thats why iam asking questions
If jb says zane was on the original list, then
* did the mail bounce / fail to deliver ?
* did jb see that ?
* there where 3 votes i would think it would be corrected after the first bounce
If jb says zane was not on the original list then thats what the current evidence suggests IMHO
>
> > >
> > > > * The 2nd issue is that there are rules how to change the GA over time
> > > > like that after 2 years there needs to a confirmation AND that the
> > > > other members represent the "active" developers in the last 36 months.
> > > > I can see an argument to leave the 2020 GA untouched and use it as is
> > > > I can also see an argument to update it, and exactly this was done in a
> > > > vote in 2021 by JB. Now we are here trying the 3rd variant of applying
> > > > only half the rules.
> > > > But whats more so, we actually are not. What you are doing here is
> > > > looking at what happened and trying to rationalize it, trying to find
> > > > an explanation for the list. Not stating upfront what this list is
> > > > IMO this is not acceptable for a vote. Uhm we found this list, lets see
> > > > where that might have come from ....
> > >
> > > To be honest, it very much seems to me that you are trying to bikeshed
> > > the process to death. Yes, it is imperfect, but that is to be expected
> > > given we've only used it a few times so far, and the last time was over
> > > 2 years ago. What we are doing here is trying to clarify the rules so
> > > that we actually can vote with some regularity.
> >
> > Is it bikesheding if 2 lists that are supposed to be the same differ in
> > multiple entries ?
>
> It is the way you are doing it, with all these "just asking questions"
> and vague accusations of impropriety.
I have incomplete information so i need to ask questions.
>
> > these are lists with roughly 50 entries, now we _know_ 2 people differ
>
> We don't. You only mention one, whom I adress above. Who is the second?
Alexander Strasser
>
> > but there where 3 on the extra voters list so really 4 differ almost certainly
>
> I do not understand this math.
There where 3 extra developer voted onto the GA and there is zane.
that makes 4
there is also Gautam Ramakrishnan on the posted list who simply did not
have 20 commits at the time of the votes in 2020
thats 5.
You cannot explain this away.
Also Thilo mentioned that the number of voters was 49 without the 3 extra members
in the results while the list jb posted had 51
These things really dont match no matter how you turn it
And again thats why iam asking questions.
[...]
> We don't need to "understand what happened",
We do need to understand what happened. The whole project depends on the decissions
of teh GA. This is not a joke, this is not something where we can be not sure
who was on the voter list
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know
nothing. -- Socrates
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 18:50 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-09 19:15 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-09 22:01 ` Michael Niedermayer
0 siblings, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Anton Khirnov @ 2023-11-09 19:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 19:50:16)
> >
> > > these are lists with roughly 50 entries, now we _know_ 2 people differ
> >
> > We don't. You only mention one, whom I adress above. Who is the second?
>
> Alexander Strasser
It seems clear that none of the three extra GA members were on the list
used now. In my opinion that is correct, as their voting rights expired
a year ago.
> >
> > > but there where 3 on the extra voters list so really 4 differ almost certainly
> >
> > I do not understand this math.
>
> There where 3 extra developer voted onto the GA and there is zane.
> that makes 4
> there is also Gautam Ramakrishnan on the posted list who simply did not
> have 20 commits at the time of the votes in 2020
> thats 5.
>
> You cannot explain this away.
> Also Thilo mentioned that the number of voters was 49 without the 3 extra members
> in the results while the list jb posted had 51
>
> These things really dont match no matter how you turn it
>
> And again thats why iam asking questions.
The problem is, there is nothing meaningful you can do with the answers.
Yes, mistakes were made in 2020. The rules were not defined clearly
enough. The process for generating the list was not formalized. The
lists themselves were not preserved unambiguously, apparently.
Now all that is being rectified. The rules have been clarified. The list
of voters has been published for the last vote, and the intent is to
publish it for all future votes. I intend to update the script after the
next vote, so that the extra GA members are in there and it generates
the actually correct result.
> > We don't need to "understand what happened",
>
> We do need to understand what happened. The whole project depends on the decissions
> of teh GA. This is not a joke, this is not something where we can be not sure
> who was on the voter list
But we are sure who was on the list, it was published. Not to mention
you have root access to the server, you can just look at the email logs
if you have any doubts.
So what is the point of all this? Besides creating a situation where
voting is too hard, so we never do it, as was the case for the past 2
years.
--
Anton Khirnov
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 19:15 ` Anton Khirnov
@ 2023-11-09 22:01 ` Michael Niedermayer
0 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-09 22:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
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On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 08:15:33PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 19:50:16)
> > >
> > > > these are lists with roughly 50 entries, now we _know_ 2 people differ
> > >
> > > We don't. You only mention one, whom I adress above. Who is the second?
> >
> > Alexander Strasser
>
> It seems clear that none of the three extra GA members were on the list
> used now. In my opinion that is correct, as their voting rights expired
> a year ago.
>
> > >
> > > > but there where 3 on the extra voters list so really 4 differ almost certainly
> > >
> > > I do not understand this math.
> >
> > There where 3 extra developer voted onto the GA and there is zane.
> > that makes 4
> > there is also Gautam Ramakrishnan on the posted list who simply did not
> > have 20 commits at the time of the votes in 2020
> > thats 5.
> >
> > You cannot explain this away.
> > Also Thilo mentioned that the number of voters was 49 without the 3 extra members
> > in the results while the list jb posted had 51
> >
> > These things really dont match no matter how you turn it
> >
> > And again thats why iam asking questions.
>
> The problem is, there is nothing meaningful you can do with the answers.
> Yes, mistakes were made in 2020. The rules were not defined clearly
> enough. The process for generating the list was not formalized. The
> lists themselves were not preserved unambiguously, apparently.
>
> Now all that is being rectified. The rules have been clarified. The list
> of voters has been published for the last vote, and the intent is to
> publish it for all future votes. I intend to update the script after the
> next vote, so that the extra GA members are in there and it generates
> the actually correct result.
for all i can tell all the votes in 2020 used consistantly the same list
(which may or may not be the correct list)
first without the extra members and then with teh 3 extra members.
exactly how one would expect.
and there where test votes prior to ensure everything worked
the problem was not 2020 (from what i can know/see ATM, the problem began in
2023 First the vote just started unexpectedly with no prior test, no
announcement. People didnt receive the mails, the options where not
discussed. The vote had to be repeated, you wrote the announcemnt
we added an option we fixed some issues in the options we tested
the infrastructure and then the vote started to my surprise not by
you and with a different list of voters.
If the rules are ambigous and one dont know who should be on the vote
list. One would post a "[RFC] Vote rules are ambigous" or
"[RFC] I lost the original list of voters from 2020" and find a
consensus first. Make sure things are transparent and everyone
understands whats going on.
None of this happened. Instead the information only slowly and after
alot of questions and increasing inconsitances where found, came out.
Fixing the rules, does not fix the lack of transparency.
What i suggest is that in the future the vote superviser is not one person
who can be overworked, stressed and forget things,
but at least 2 who work together and who must agree on every step before
doing it. The 2 people can be one member of the TC and one member of the CC
and for each vote a different pair would be selected. (with 5 members in each
committee there are 25 combinations minus anyone who doesnt volunteer and also
any pair who are friends (or the same person) should be excluded)
That is for the official votes like GA/TC/CC votes
Anyone can of course still start their own vote
Above mail is just a suggestion, if people want to keep the current
system. Iam not opposed. I was just thinking about what the alternatives
are and because few people i think have broad support and trust picking
a always changing pair seemed a interresting option to propose.
Now please flame me to death for suggesting this!
I need to look into releases (which i almost certainly wont be able to finish today)
Also the question about the vote supervisor was raised before in 2020 by paul
0702 12:58 Paul B Mahol (1,6K) [FFmpeg-devel] RfP Candidates
Why and how you are picked to do this stuff?
Can't we vote for someone else?
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know
nothing. -- Socrates
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 17:06 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-09 17:39 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-09 17:39 ` Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel
1 sibling, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Kieran Kunhya via ffmpeg-devel @ 2023-11-09 17:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches; +Cc: Kieran Kunhya
On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 5:06 PM Anton Khirnov <anton@khirnov.net> wrote:
>
> Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 17:21:12)
> > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 01:21:13PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> > > As far as I can tell, the voter list in the last vote should be the same
> > > as the GA from 2020, except for the extra members whose voting rights
> > > expire after 2 years.
> > >
> > > Do you dispute that?
> >
> > There are at least 3 issues here
> >
> > * The first and maybe the biggest, is that our vote superviser can reply to
> > mails within 20min (like in this thread here) but is not replying to a simple
> > question within days where the list of voters comes from he used and how it
> > relates to the 2020 GA. It gives one the feeling he has some sort of
> > difficulty with awnsering that question
> > you took a guess here and replied, and i appreciate that. But really JB
> > choose this list and also the one in 2020. Only he can explain where these
> > lists come from and how they relate.
>
> JB did explain where the list comes from [1] - it was generated by the
> script that is now in our tree. Nobody disputed it in 2020.
>
> > * I know for a fact that at least zane was not in the 2020 GA as i talked
> > with him and i know he did cast a vote in 2023 because again he told me.
> > So even if you partially apply the rules these lists do not match
>
> Zane had 30 commits in July 2020, so he SHOULD have been on the list. If
> he wasn't, then it was a mistake in 2020.
>
> > * The 2nd issue is that there are rules how to change the GA over time
> > like that after 2 years there needs to a confirmation AND that the
> > other members represent the "active" developers in the last 36 months.
> > I can see an argument to leave the 2020 GA untouched and use it as is
> > I can also see an argument to update it, and exactly this was done in a
> > vote in 2021 by JB. Now we are here trying the 3rd variant of applying
> > only half the rules.
> > But whats more so, we actually are not. What you are doing here is
> > looking at what happened and trying to rationalize it, trying to find
> > an explanation for the list. Not stating upfront what this list is
> > IMO this is not acceptable for a vote. Uhm we found this list, lets see
> > where that might have come from ....
>
> To be honest, it very much seems to me that you are trying to bikeshed
> the process to death. Yes, it is imperfect, but that is to be expected
> given we've only used it a few times so far, and the last time was over
> 2 years ago. What we are doing here is trying to clarify the rules so
> that we actually can vote with some regularity.
>
> In the vote we just had, option A won its contests against B/C/D by
> 17/7, 23/1, and 17/7, respectively. While it is possible that the list
> used was not entirely correct (also depending on
> the intepretation of the rules), I see no reason to think it was
> incorrect in 10 people, which is what you'd need to have a chance of
> getting a different result.
>
> [1] http://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2020-June/264732.html
>
> --
> Anton Khirnov
Organizations and Conferences
Insist on doing everything through “channels.” Never permit
short-cuts to be taken in order to expedite decisions.
Make “speeches.” Talk as frequently as possible and at great
length. Illustrate your “points” by long anecdotes and accounts of
personal experiences.
When possible, refer all matters to committees, for “further study
and consideration.” Attempt to make the committee as large as possible
— never less than five.
Bring up irrelevant issues as frequently as possible.
Haggle over precise wordings of communications, minutes, resolutions.
Refer back to matters decided upon at the last meeting and attempt
to re-open the question of the advisability of that decision.
Advocate “caution.” Be “reasonable” and urge your fellow-conferees
to be “reasonable” and avoid haste which might result in
embarrassments or difficulties later on.
source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriklarson/2023/08/15/a-spys-guide-to-making-bad-decisions/
Presented without comment.
Regards,
Kieran Kunhya
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 12:21 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-09 12:24 ` James Almer
2023-11-09 16:21 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-09 16:50 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 17:04 ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
2 siblings, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-09 16:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
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On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 01:21:13PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 12:55:25)
[...]
> > If the current GA stays as it is, then i propose the following people
> > (this list was quickly made and certainly has omisions and possibly errors,
> > check anything thats important to you!)
> >
> > The presumed 2020 General assembly as well as people who have subtantial
> > contributions over the lifetime of the project where the source of this list
>
> > Ting Fu (last active in April 2023, 24 commits in 2021-2023, )
>
> He actually is in the GA, but his Intel mailbox bounces.
i couldnt find another address either after a quick look :(
[...]
> > Fabrice Bellard (Founder of the project over 600 commits in FFmpeg)
> > Aman Karmani (17 authored commits in 2020-2023, recently active in 2023-June and work all over the codebase)
> > Baptiste Coudurier (Pays for our fate server since forever, maintains 15 things in MAINTAINERs, is the the copyright of 56 files, over 1900 commits in FFmpeg)
> > Moritz Barsnick (Member of the 2020 GA but was not on jbs list)
> > Lauri Kasanen (Linux / PowerPC maintainer)
> > Dale Curtis (14 commits in 2020 was in the 2020-GA)
> > Alexander Strasser (Root admin, just recently reported that he could not vote even though he was in teh 2020-GA, 3 things in MAINTAINERs)
> > foo86 (maintainer and author of dca*, dolby_e*, dtsdec, s337m)
> > Huiwen Ren (8 matches in the codebase of his name, avs2* and related things maintainer)
> > Martin Vignali (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2019 because of hostility)
> > Lou Logan (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2020, also in the 2020-GA but not on jbs list)
> > Matthieu Bouron (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, recently active in 2022, 5 entries in MAINTAINERs, 25 in copyrights)
> > Ruiling Song (vf_tonemap_opencl maintainer, added SIMD code to various bits of code, last active in git in 2020)
> > John Stebbins (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, last active in git in 2020, 1 copyright match)
> > Tobias Rapp (vf_readvitc mainatiner, last commit in Jul 2023, 88 commits in FFmpeg)
> > Shiyou Yin (MIPS & LoongArch maintainer, 24 matches for his name in the source, last commit May 2023)
> > Reimar Döffinger (over 1400 commits in FFmpeg, root admin and last commit in Oct 2023, 49 matches for his name in the codebase)
> > Aurelien Jacobs (over 1000 commits in FFmpeg, 13 entries in MAINTAINERs, 70 copyright line matches)
> > Hendrik Leppkes (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 2 entries in MAINTAINERs, 4 copyrights, last commit in Jul 2023)
> > Vitor Sessak (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 28 copyright matches)
> > Kostya Shishkov (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 162 copyright matches)
> > Ramiro Polla (over 600 commits in FFmpeg, 5 matches in MAINTAINERs, 22 copyright matches)
> > Alex Converse (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 32 copyright matches)
> > Janne Grunau (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 24 copyright matches)
> > Andreas Cadhalpun (over 400 commits in FFmpeg, 2 copyright matches)
>
> Sending voting emails to people who have not had any contact with the
> project for years, can be regarded as spamming.
someone who made hundreads of contributions can expect some
occasional feedback until he indicates that he wants to hear no more
after which of course he should not receive any further communication.
that said, i checked ML subscribers and found
16 of the people above to be currently subscribed with email addresses
that i found by greping their name. (not posting the list due to privacy
concerns)
> I think there should be
> some confirmation that these people are actually interested in having
> voting rights.
Yes, i guess so
If people want that. I volunteer and will contact them all and ask.
It was my suggestion to add these people so iam ready to do the work.
But we should give them a week at least to reply.
Should i ask all or limit to the ones who are not subscribed to the ML
with a identifyable address ?
thx
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal.
-- Aristotle
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 16:50 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-09 17:04 ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
2023-11-09 17:41 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-10 10:54 ` Hendrik Leppkes
0 siblings, 2 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Rémi Denis-Courmont @ 2023-11-09 17:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 18.50.52 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
> that said, i checked ML subscribers and found
> 16 of the people above to be currently subscribed with email addresses
> that i found by greping their name. (not posting the list due to privacy
> concerns)
Thing is, if they are subscribed and still don't ask to be added to the GA, I
don't think they should be "volunteered" by someone else. They are of course
welcome to apply.
And if they are not subscribed, then they should not be added to the GA, not
only because they presumably don't want to hear about FFmpeg at the moment,
but also because they are probably totally out of the loop about it, so to
speak.
--
雷米‧德尼-库尔蒙
http://www.remlab.net/
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 17:04 ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
@ 2023-11-09 17:41 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 17:53 ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
2023-11-10 10:54 ` Hendrik Leppkes
1 sibling, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-09 17:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1212 bytes --]
On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:04:00PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 18.50.52 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
> > that said, i checked ML subscribers and found
> > 16 of the people above to be currently subscribed with email addresses
> > that i found by greping their name. (not posting the list due to privacy
> > concerns)
>
> Thing is, if they are subscribed and still don't ask to be added to the GA, I
> don't think they should be "volunteered" by someone else. They are of course
> welcome to apply.
>
> And if they are not subscribed, then they should not be added to the GA, not
> only because they presumably don't want to hear about FFmpeg at the moment,
> but also because they are probably totally out of the loop about it, so to
> speak.
While i can find 16 who are subscribed. I have no way to find people who
are not subscribed, they can be subcribed using some email addess that doesnt
include their name in either domain or user
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
It is a danger to trust the dream we wish for rather than
the science we have, -- Dr. Kenneth Brown
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 17:41 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-09 17:53 ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
[not found] ` <2D211056-1560-4869-9279-7CEC9BA25AC4@cosmin.at>
2023-11-09 18:15 ` Michael Niedermayer
0 siblings, 2 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Rémi Denis-Courmont @ 2023-11-09 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 19.41.53 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:04:00PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> > Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 18.50.52 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit
:
> > > that said, i checked ML subscribers and found
> > > 16 of the people above to be currently subscribed with email addresses
> > > that i found by greping their name. (not posting the list due to privacy
> > > concerns)
> >
> > Thing is, if they are subscribed and still don't ask to be added to the
> > GA, I don't think they should be "volunteered" by someone else. They are
> > of course welcome to apply.
> >
> > And if they are not subscribed, then they should not be added to the GA,
> > not only because they presumably don't want to hear about FFmpeg at the
> > moment, but also because they are probably totally out of the loop about
> > it, so to speak.
>
> While i can find 16 who are subscribed. I have no way to find people who
> are not subscribed, they can be subcribed using some email addess that
> doesnt include their name in either domain or user
The point is that, whether or not they are on the mailing list, people should
not be volunteered to the GA by others, but on their own volition. The
circumstances are different for those on the mailing list and those not, but
the end result is the same: don't nominate people like that. It's rude.
(In fact, they are also potentially people on the mailing list but with
Mailman delivery turned off, as well as people who don't read the email account
through which they are subscribed.)
If you think some people should be added, as far as I am concerned, you are of
course welcome to nudge them via private message to friendly remind them that
they can nominate themselves.
--
Rémi Denis-Courmont
http://www.remlab.net/
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread[parent not found: <2D211056-1560-4869-9279-7CEC9BA25AC4@cosmin.at>]
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
[not found] ` <2D211056-1560-4869-9279-7CEC9BA25AC4@cosmin.at>
@ 2023-11-09 18:11 ` Cosmin Stejerean via ffmpeg-devel
2023-11-09 18:38 ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
0 siblings, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Cosmin Stejerean via ffmpeg-devel @ 2023-11-09 18:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches; +Cc: Cosmin Stejerean
> On Nov 9, 2023, at 9:53 AM, Rémi Denis-Courmont <remi@remlab.net> wrote:
>
> The point is that, whether or not they are on the mailing list, people should
> not be volunteered to the GA by others, but on their own volition. The
> circumstances are different for those on the mailing list and those not, but
> the end result is the same: don't nominate people like that. It's rude.
I don't think nominating others for the GA is rude, assuming they accept the nomination. I do agree they shouldn't be automatically be put on the GA because of a nomination they did not accept, but it seems reasonable to ask them if they want to accept the nomination. I do think that being subscribed to the mailing list should be a prerequisite however.
- Cosmin
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 18:11 ` Cosmin Stejerean via ffmpeg-devel
@ 2023-11-09 18:38 ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
0 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Rémi Denis-Courmont @ 2023-11-09 18:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 20.11.12 EET Cosmin Stejerean via ffmpeg-
devel a écrit :
> > On Nov 9, 2023, at 9:53 AM, Rémi Denis-Courmont <remi@remlab.net> wrote:
> >
> > The point is that, whether or not they are on the mailing list, people
> > should
> > not be volunteered to the GA by others, but on their own
> > volition. The circumstances are different for those on the mailing list
> > and those not, but the end result is the same: don't nominate people like
> > that. It's rude.
>
> I don't think nominating others for the GA is rude, assuming they accept the
> nomination.
Ok, fair enough, it varies. Shy or modest people may find it rude. Others may
be proud of being nominated. But either way, I find it rude to put people on
the ballot without their express request to do so.
> I do agree they shouldn't be automatically be put on the GA
> because of a nomination they did not accept, but it seems reasonable to ask
> them if they want to accept the nomination.
Yes.
--
Rémi Denis-Courmont
http://www.remlab.net/
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 17:53 ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
[not found] ` <2D211056-1560-4869-9279-7CEC9BA25AC4@cosmin.at>
@ 2023-11-09 18:15 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 18:34 ` Anton Khirnov
` (2 more replies)
1 sibling, 3 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-09 18:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1237 bytes --]
On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:53:33PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 19.41.53 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
[...]
> If you think some people should be added, as far as I am concerned, you are of
> course welcome to nudge them via private message to friendly remind them that
> they can nominate themselves.
so what i will do then is
If a developer was in the GA before || are just under the threshold but
active || are part of the infra teams and packaging
i will leave them in the list to be added (that is also what jb suggested)
otherwise
I will contact them and ask if they want to be in the GA and
update the list accordingly, removing everyone who does not reply
[I will not reveal wo said no vs who did not reply just remove if either
applies]
PS: and i will wait a bit for the current dust to settle first (maybe a day or 2)
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
"You are 36 times more likely to die in a bathtub than at the hands of a
terrorist. Also, you are 2.5 times more likely to become a president and
2 times more likely to become an astronaut, than to die in a terrorist
attack." -- Thoughty2
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 18:15 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-09 18:34 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-09 18:41 ` Martin Storsjö
2023-11-09 19:30 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
2 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Anton Khirnov @ 2023-11-09 18:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 19:15:35)
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:53:33PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> > Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 19.41.53 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
> [...]
> > If you think some people should be added, as far as I am concerned, you are of
> > course welcome to nudge them via private message to friendly remind them that
> > they can nominate themselves.
>
> so what i will do then is
> If a developer was in the GA before || are just under the threshold but
> active || are part of the infra teams and packaging
> i will leave them in the list to be added (that is also what jb suggested)
> otherwise
> I will contact them and ask if they want to be in the GA and
> update the list accordingly, removing everyone who does not reply
> [I will not reveal wo said no vs who did not reply just remove if either
> applies]
>
> PS: and i will wait a bit for the current dust to settle first (maybe a day or 2)
Okay, then we will postpone the vote until Monday 2023-11-20. I will
expect you to submit a list of candidates before then.
--
Anton Khirnov
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 18:15 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 18:34 ` Anton Khirnov
@ 2023-11-09 18:41 ` Martin Storsjö
2023-11-09 19:30 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
2 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Martin Storsjö @ 2023-11-09 18:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:53:33PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
>> Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 19.41.53 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
> [...]
>> If you think some people should be added, as far as I am concerned, you are of
>> course welcome to nudge them via private message to friendly remind them that
>> they can nominate themselves.
>
> so what i will do then is
> If a developer was in the GA before || are just under the threshold but
> active || are part of the infra teams and packaging
> i will leave them in the list to be added (that is also what jb suggested)
> otherwise
> I will contact them and ask if they want to be in the GA and
> update the list accordingly, removing everyone who does not reply
Those who you contact and wish to be part of the GA, can they reply
publicly on the mailing list as well and acknowledge this?
// Martin
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 18:15 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 18:34 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-09 18:41 ` Martin Storsjö
@ 2023-11-09 19:30 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
2023-11-09 20:17 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 22:49 ` Michael Niedermayer
2 siblings, 2 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Jean-Baptiste Kempf @ 2023-11-09 19:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ffmpeg-devel
On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 19:15, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:53:33PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
>> Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 19.41.53 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
> [...]
>> If you think some people should be added, as far as I am concerned, you are of
>> course welcome to nudge them via private message to friendly remind them that
>> they can nominate themselves.
>
> so what i will do then is
> If a developer was in the GA before || are just under the threshold but
> active || are part of the infra teams and packaging
> i will leave them in the list to be added (that is also what jb suggested)
Of course, this seems reasonable.
> I will contact them and ask if they want to be in the GA and
You should contact who you want, or think is necessary.
But they should step forward and say so publicly that they are candidates.
--
Jean-Baptiste Kempf - President
+33 672 704 734
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 19:30 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
@ 2023-11-09 20:17 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 20:27 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-09 22:45 ` Vittorio Giovara
2023-11-09 22:49 ` Michael Niedermayer
1 sibling, 2 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-09 20:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1621 bytes --]
On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 08:30:15PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 19:15, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:53:33PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> >> Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 19.41.53 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
> > [...]
> >> If you think some people should be added, as far as I am concerned, you are of
> >> course welcome to nudge them via private message to friendly remind them that
> >> they can nominate themselves.
> >
> > so what i will do then is
> > If a developer was in the GA before || are just under the threshold but
> > active || are part of the infra teams and packaging
> > i will leave them in the list to be added (that is also what jb suggested)
>
> Of course, this seems reasonable.
>
> > I will contact them and ask if they want to be in the GA and
>
> You should contact who you want, or think is necessary.
> But they should step forward and say so publicly that they are candidates.
I think this is asking too much and it is unfair. We are not in any other
case demanding that people announce themselfs infront of everyone for
anything. Not for joining the mailing list, Not for anything else.
Especially not for having vote rights.
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
The real ebay dictionary, page 1
"Used only once" - "Some unspecified defect prevented a second use"
"In good condition" - "Can be repaird by experienced expert"
"As is" - "You wouldnt want it even if you were payed for it, if you knew ..."
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 20:17 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-09 20:27 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-09 22:45 ` Vittorio Giovara
1 sibling, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Anton Khirnov @ 2023-11-09 20:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-09 21:17:34)
> Not for anything else. Especially not for having vote rights.
Getting vote rights requires one to submit patches publicly.
--
Anton Khirnov
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 20:17 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 20:27 ` Anton Khirnov
@ 2023-11-09 22:45 ` Vittorio Giovara
1 sibling, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Vittorio Giovara @ 2023-11-09 22:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 3:17 PM Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 08:30:15PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 19:15, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:53:33PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> > >> Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 19.41.53 EET Michael Niedermayer a
> écrit :
> > > [...]
> > >> If you think some people should be added, as far as I am concerned,
> you are of
> > >> course welcome to nudge them via private message to friendly remind
> them that
> > >> they can nominate themselves.
> > >
> > > so what i will do then is
> > > If a developer was in the GA before || are just under the threshold but
> > > active || are part of the infra teams and packaging
> > > i will leave them in the list to be added (that is also what jb
> suggested)
> >
> > Of course, this seems reasonable.
> >
> > > I will contact them and ask if they want to be in the GA and
> >
> > You should contact who you want, or think is necessary.
>
>
>
> > But they should step forward and say so publicly that they are
> candidates.
>
> I think this is asking too much and it is unfair. We are not in any other
> case demanding that people announce themselfs infront of everyone for
> anything. Not for joining the mailing list, Not for anything else.
> Especially not for having vote rights.
>
This is unmanageable. As mentioned, being subscribed to the mailing list
should be the very first minimum requirement, and secondly the candidates
should speak up.
We don't want people to put words in their mouth, or guilt trip them into
performing work they don't want to do, or given the project's troubled
history give them a ptsd attack bringing back bad memories.
Voting is definitely a right, and in most rights there are obligations tied
to it as well, one of them is the obligation of announcing publicly a
candidacy to the GA.
--
Vittorio
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 19:30 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
2023-11-09 20:17 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-09 22:49 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-09 22:58 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
1 sibling, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-09 22:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1748 bytes --]
On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 08:30:15PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 19:15, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:53:33PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> >> Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 19.41.53 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
> > [...]
> >> If you think some people should be added, as far as I am concerned, you are of
> >> course welcome to nudge them via private message to friendly remind them that
> >> they can nominate themselves.
> >
> > so what i will do then is
> > If a developer was in the GA before || are just under the threshold but
> > active || are part of the infra teams and packaging
> > i will leave them in the list to be added (that is also what jb suggested)
>
> Of course, this seems reasonable.
>
> > I will contact them and ask if they want to be in the GA and
>
> You should contact who you want, or think is necessary.
> But they should step forward and say so publicly that they are candidates.
last time you collected candidates you said something very different
https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2020-June/265348.html
"If you are interested in being a candidate, please mail me in private (aka not on the list).
You can suggest another candidate, but I will validate with them if they might agree in the end."
I want to use the exact same process, why you and other people demand
a higher bar ?
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
If you fake or manipulate statistics in a paper in physics you will never
get a job again.
If you fake or manipulate statistics in a paper in medicin you will get
a job for life at the pharma industry.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 22:49 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-09 22:58 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
2023-11-10 11:06 ` Michael Niedermayer
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Jean-Baptiste Kempf @ 2023-11-09 22:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Niedermayer, ffmpeg-devel
On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 23:49, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 08:30:15PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 19:15, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
>> > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:53:33PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
>> >> Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 19.41.53 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
>> > [...]
>> >> If you think some people should be added, as far as I am concerned, you are of
>> >> course welcome to nudge them via private message to friendly remind them that
>> >> they can nominate themselves.
>> >
>> > so what i will do then is
>> > If a developer was in the GA before || are just under the threshold but
>> > active || are part of the infra teams and packaging
>> > i will leave them in the list to be added (that is also what jb suggested)
>>
>> Of course, this seems reasonable.
>>
>> > I will contact them and ask if they want to be in the GA and
>>
>> You should contact who you want, or think is necessary.
>> But they should step forward and say so publicly that they are candidates.
>
> last time you collected candidates you said something very different
>
> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2020-June/265348.html
>
> "If you are interested in being a candidate, please mail me in private
> (aka not on the list).
> You can suggest another candidate, but I will validate with them if
> they might agree in the end."
>
> I want to use the exact same process, why you and other people demand
> a higher bar ?
First, because noone said anything else on that thread to ask for it to be public.
And then, because people complained after that it was not public, at the following meeting.
So we said that we would do differently the following time.
You want everything public, for everything, even for list of voters, and emails, and SPI reimbursements, (for things that are something a clear privacy and GDPR violations). But now, you want to keep private the people who should be external GA members, while, on THIS very thread, people asked for publicity and for candidates to speak up for their candidacy.
Also, at that time, I did not bring a list of 20 candidates who are, for the most part, inactive.
While asking "trust me, I will get their approval in private, but they will not speak on the mailing list".
jb
--
Jean-Baptiste Kempf - President
+33 672 704 734
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 22:58 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
@ 2023-11-10 11:06 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-10 13:16 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-11 2:24 ` Michael Niedermayer
2 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-10 11:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1160 bytes --]
On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 11:58:29PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
[...]
> You want everything public, for everything, even for list of voters, and emails, and SPI reimbursements, (for things that are something a clear privacy and GDPR violations). But now, you want to keep private the people who should be external GA members, while, on THIS very thread, people asked for publicity and for candidates to speak up for their candidacy.
[...]
> While asking "trust me, I will get their approval in private, but they will not speak on the mailing list".
these accusations are unacceptable
iam not asking for "GDPR violations", nor have i. Maybe we interpret the GDPR differently
nor do or did i "want to keep private the people who should be external GA members,"
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
If you drop bombs on a foreign country and kill a hundred thousand
innocent people, expect your government to call the consequence
"unprovoked inhuman terrorist attacks" and use it to justify dropping
more bombs and killing more people. The technology changed, the idea is old.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 22:58 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
2023-11-10 11:06 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-10 13:16 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-10 13:37 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
2023-11-11 2:24 ` Michael Niedermayer
2 siblings, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-10 13:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2682 bytes --]
Hi
On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 11:58:29PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 23:49, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 08:30:15PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 19:15, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> >> > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:53:33PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> >> >> Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 19.41.53 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
> >> > [...]
> >> >> If you think some people should be added, as far as I am concerned, you are of
> >> >> course welcome to nudge them via private message to friendly remind them that
> >> >> they can nominate themselves.
> >> >
> >> > so what i will do then is
> >> > If a developer was in the GA before || are just under the threshold but
> >> > active || are part of the infra teams and packaging
> >> > i will leave them in the list to be added (that is also what jb suggested)
> >>
> >> Of course, this seems reasonable.
> >>
> >> > I will contact them and ask if they want to be in the GA and
> >>
> >> You should contact who you want, or think is necessary.
> >> But they should step forward and say so publicly that they are candidates.
> >
> > last time you collected candidates you said something very different
> >
> > https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2020-June/265348.html
> >
> > "If you are interested in being a candidate, please mail me in private
> > (aka not on the list).
> > You can suggest another candidate, but I will validate with them if
> > they might agree in the end."
> >
> > I want to use the exact same process, why you and other people demand
> > a higher bar ?
>
> First, because noone said anything else on that thread to ask for it to be public.
> And then, because people complained after that it was not public, at the following meeting.
> So we said that we would do differently the following time.
Was this a FFmpeg meeting or a (weekly) FFlabs meeting ?
ive been in only one FFLabs meeting and that must have been years after this.
So obviously thats a differnt case ...
And in that one meeting FFmpeg voting was discussed towards the end of the
meeting.
id like to point out that FFlabs is a commercial entity and not the right
place to discuss anything about FFmpeg governance or votes.
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
Frequently ignored answer#1 FFmpeg bugs should be sent to our bugtracker. User
questions about the command line tools should be sent to the ffmpeg-user ML.
And questions about how to use libav* should be sent to the libav-user ML.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-10 13:16 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-10 13:37 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
0 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Jean-Baptiste Kempf @ 2023-11-10 13:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ffmpeg-devel
On Fri, 10 Nov 2023, at 14:16, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
>> First, because noone said anything else on that thread to ask for it to be public.
>
>> And then, because people complained after that it was not public, at the following meeting.
>> So we said that we would do differently the following time.
>
> Was this a FFmpeg meeting or a (weekly) FFlabs meeting ?
An FFmpeg one.
> And in that one meeting FFmpeg voting was discussed towards the end of the
> meeting.
You remember all the contents of all FFmpeg meetings since 2020, including all the calls, the FOSDEM and VDD ones?
I don't.
I remember someone saying it should be public, I said: "sure, that's a good point" and that's it.
If people had asked in the previous thread, that's probably what I would have done.
Because I'm normal human being, who understand his limitations.
People have asked for people becoming candidates to post publicly on this mailing list, I don't see what the big deal in that.
--
Jean-Baptiste Kempf - President
+33 672 704 734
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 22:58 ` Jean-Baptiste Kempf
2023-11-10 11:06 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-10 13:16 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-11 2:24 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-11 3:06 ` James Almer
2 siblings, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-11 2:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5781 bytes --]
On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 11:58:29PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 23:49, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 08:30:15PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 19:15, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> >> > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:53:33PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> >> >> Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 19.41.53 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
> >> > [...]
> >> >> If you think some people should be added, as far as I am concerned, you are of
> >> >> course welcome to nudge them via private message to friendly remind them that
> >> >> they can nominate themselves.
> >> >
> >> > so what i will do then is
> >> > If a developer was in the GA before || are just under the threshold but
> >> > active || are part of the infra teams and packaging
> >> > i will leave them in the list to be added (that is also what jb suggested)
> >>
> >> Of course, this seems reasonable.
> >>
> >> > I will contact them and ask if they want to be in the GA and
> >>
> >> You should contact who you want, or think is necessary.
> >> But they should step forward and say so publicly that they are candidates.
[...]
> Also, at that time, I did not bring a list of 20 candidates who are, for the most part, inactive.
> While asking "trust me, I will get their approval in private, but they will not speak on the mailing list".
ok, maybe we should just slow down a bit delay the vote by a few days and
discuss this to reduce peoples anxiety? :)
Lets take a step back and look at what i suggested and discuss this a bit first
I also have to say that this looks a bit like Xenophobia to me to be honest.
I hope that word has no political connotation ohh well, i guess iam now some
right or left extremist whatever is attached to the word ATM.
And i can certainly CC someone like anton to verify what i send to people and
what they reply. If people think i suddenly grew sozial skills to manipulate
people or that i would be dishonest. (thx for the accusation btw)
So we have a founder who own and pays the domain. is someone against it if he
is nominated for the GA ?
If people demand he posts in public and asks to be nominated i will not ask him
as i am pretty sure he will not do that. I still think our GA should contain
our founder because, hell he is our founder.
Also by trying to limit the GA to a closed circle the GA is not very
general and it becomes questionable if that GA can speak for FFmpeg.
What iam trying to say is, if you have a group of active developers that group
can speak for what the active developers want but not what the authors of FFmpeg
want. OTOH if you include the main authors, founder and so on the general assembly
actually is a general assembly.
then there are teh people who publically replied
Alexander, Reimar, Hendrik
then there are people who run or pay our infra
Baptiste Coudurier (Pays for our fate server since forever, maintains 15 things in MAINTAINERs, is the the copyright of 56 files, over 1900 commits in FFmpeg)
Nikolay (root admin, he has helped with uncountable many things around the server, upgrades, backups, ...)
then there are people who are active in the last 36 month but just dont make the threshold or people from the 2020-GA
We did send them vote mails multiple times already
Aman Karmani (17 authored commits in 2020-2023, recently active in 2023-June and work all over the codebase)
Moritz Barsnick (Member of the 2020 GA but was not on jbs list)
Lauri Kasanen (Linux / PowerPC maintainer)
Dale Curtis (14 commits in 2020 was in the 2020-GA)
foo86 (maintainer and author of dca*, dolby_e*, dtsdec, s337m)
Huiwen Ren (8 matches in the codebase of his name, avs2* and related things maintainer)
Matthieu Bouron (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, recently active in 2022, 5 entries in MAINTAINERs, 25 in copyrights)
Ruiling Song (vf_tonemap_opencl maintainer, added SIMD code to various bits of code, last active in git in 2020)
John Stebbins (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, last active in git in 2020, 1 copyright match)
Ting Fu (last active in April 2023, 24 commits in 2021-2023, )
Shiyou Yin (MIPS & LoongArch maintainer, 24 matches for his name in the source, last commit May 2023)
Then for who remains, i think it depends on what people demand.
If the demand is that they must post in public, I will rest my suggestion
to add people beyond above (who neeed no public post)
as noone who was inactive for years is likely going to come back to ask
for membership in the GA in their comeback mail.
OTOH if some other request system can be agreed on then i will contact
them
Aurelien Jacobs (over 1000 commits in FFmpeg, 13 entries in MAINTAINERs, 70 copyright line matches)
Vitor Sessak (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 28 copyright matches)
Kostya Shishkov (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 162 copyright matches)
Ramiro Polla (over 600 commits in FFmpeg, 5 matches in MAINTAINERs, 22 copyright matches)
Alex Converse (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 32 copyright matches)
Janne Grunau (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 24 copyright matches)
Andreas Cadhalpun (over 400 commits in FFmpeg, 2 copyright matches)
I will not ask Lou or Martin as they left and iam fairly sure they will
not appreciate the current environment. I do not want to drag them
into this hostile mess
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
Into a blind darkness they enter who follow after the Ignorance,
they as if into a greater darkness enter who devote themselves
to the Knowledge alone. -- Isha Upanishad
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-11 2:24 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-11 3:06 ` James Almer
2023-11-11 17:28 ` Michael Niedermayer
0 siblings, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: James Almer @ 2023-11-11 3:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ffmpeg-devel
On 11/10/2023 11:24 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 11:58:29PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
>> On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 23:49, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
>>> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 08:30:15PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 19:15, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:53:33PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
>>>>>> Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 19.41.53 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>> If you think some people should be added, as far as I am concerned, you are of
>>>>>> course welcome to nudge them via private message to friendly remind them that
>>>>>> they can nominate themselves.
>>>>>
>>>>> so what i will do then is
>>>>> If a developer was in the GA before || are just under the threshold but
>>>>> active || are part of the infra teams and packaging
>>>>> i will leave them in the list to be added (that is also what jb suggested)
>>>>
>>>> Of course, this seems reasonable.
>>>>
>>>>> I will contact them and ask if they want to be in the GA and
>>>>
>>>> You should contact who you want, or think is necessary.
>>>> But they should step forward and say so publicly that they are candidates.
> [...]
>
>> Also, at that time, I did not bring a list of 20 candidates who are, for the most part, inactive.
>> While asking "trust me, I will get their approval in private, but they will not speak on the mailing list".
>
> ok, maybe we should just slow down a bit delay the vote by a few days and
> discuss this to reduce peoples anxiety? :)
>
> Lets take a step back and look at what i suggested and discuss this a bit first
> I also have to say that this looks a bit like Xenophobia to me to be honest.
How did you even get to that conclusion?
> I hope that word has no political connotation ohh well, i guess iam now some
> right or left extremist whatever is attached to the word ATM.
>
> And i can certainly CC someone like anton to verify what i send to people and
> what they reply. If people think i suddenly grew sozial skills to manipulate
> people or that i would be dishonest. (thx for the accusation btw)
>
> So we have a founder who own and pays the domain. is someone against it if he
> is nominated for the GA ?
No one would be against that, at all.
> If people demand he posts in public and asks to be nominated i will not ask him
> as i am pretty sure he will not do that. I still think our GA should contain
> our founder because, hell he is our founder.
As others have pointed out, any of us can nominate anyone we think would
be good in the GA, but if they don't personally want to be in it or care
to be in it, does it make sense to add them to begin with? Will they
vote at all, or will they consider the Condorcet emails as spam?
I don't mind us adding people nominated if the rest agree with said
nomination. But adding people that we know or suspect don't care about
the project anymore will just increase the amount of votes where a big
percentage of enabled voters don't participate.
>
> Also by trying to limit the GA to a closed circle the GA is not very
> general and it becomes questionable if that GA can speak for FFmpeg.
> What iam trying to say is, if you have a group of active developers that group
> can speak for what the active developers want but not what the authors of FFmpeg
> want. OTOH if you include the main authors, founder and so on the general assembly
> actually is a general assembly.
I agree with this. But i insist on the above.
>
> then there are teh people who publically replied
> Alexander, Reimar, Hendrik
>
> then there are people who run or pay our infra
> Baptiste Coudurier (Pays for our fate server since forever, maintains 15 things in MAINTAINERs, is the the copyright of 56 files, over 1900 commits in FFmpeg)
> Nikolay (root admin, he has helped with uncountable many things around the server, upgrades, backups, ...)
Ok, they will clearly participate, so they are good nominations.
>
> then there are people who are active in the last 36 month but just dont make the threshold or people from the 2020-GA
> We did send them vote mails multiple times already
> Aman Karmani (17 authored commits in 2020-2023, recently active in 2023-June and work all over the codebase)
> Moritz Barsnick (Member of the 2020 GA but was not on jbs list)
> Lauri Kasanen (Linux / PowerPC maintainer)
> Dale Curtis (14 commits in 2020 was in the 2020-GA)
> foo86 (maintainer and author of dca*, dolby_e*, dtsdec, s337m)
> Huiwen Ren (8 matches in the codebase of his name, avs2* and related things maintainer)
> Matthieu Bouron (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, recently active in 2022, 5 entries in MAINTAINERs, 25 in copyrights)
> Ruiling Song (vf_tonemap_opencl maintainer, added SIMD code to various bits of code, last active in git in 2020)
> John Stebbins (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, last active in git in 2020, 1 copyright match)
> Ting Fu (last active in April 2023, 24 commits in 2021-2023, )
> Shiyou Yin (MIPS & LoongArch maintainer, 24 matches for his name in the source, last commit May 2023)
From this list, foo86 at least is AWOL, so no point adding him unless
he resurfaces. Moritz Barsnick seems to read the list even if he very
rarely writes, so he may be fine.
I have not looked at the rest, but feel free to nominate them if you
think they are good for the GA.
>
>
> Then for who remains, i think it depends on what people demand.
> If the demand is that they must post in public, I will rest my suggestion
> to add people beyond above (who neeed no public post)
> as noone who was inactive for years is likely going to come back to ask
> for membership in the GA in their comeback mail.
>
> OTOH if some other request system can be agreed on then i will contact
> them
>
> Aurelien Jacobs (over 1000 commits in FFmpeg, 13 entries in MAINTAINERs, 70 copyright line matches)
> Vitor Sessak (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 28 copyright matches)
> Kostya Shishkov (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 162 copyright matches)
> Ramiro Polla (over 600 commits in FFmpeg, 5 matches in MAINTAINERs, 22 copyright matches)
> Alex Converse (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 32 copyright matches)
> Janne Grunau (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 24 copyright matches)
> Andreas Cadhalpun (over 400 commits in FFmpeg, 2 copyright matches)
I'm fairly sure Kostya is doing his own thing and not interested at all
in ffmpeg. Andreas Cadhalpun hasn't been active since 2017. Vitor Sessak
since 2014. Aurelien Jacobs since 2018. And I see a single email from
Janne Grunau (Although a lot of activity in dav1d).
From this list, i think only Alex Converse makes sense, since even
though mostly inactive, he seems to pop up every now and then and
comment, meaning he reads the list. Maybe also Ramiro Polla and Janne
Grunau.
So go ahead and nominate them. And please lets put an end to this
bikeshed. The length of this email thread and amount of branches i see
from it on my client is ridiculous, as were all the incredibly damaging
accusations thrown around, implicitly or explicitly, for no reason.
>
> I will not ask Lou or Martin as they left and iam fairly sure they will
> not appreciate the current environment. I do not want to drag them
> into this hostile mess
>
> thx
>
> [...]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ffmpeg-devel mailing list
> ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
>
> To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email
> ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-11 3:06 ` James Almer
@ 2023-11-11 17:28 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-11 18:02 ` Paul B Mahol
2023-11-11 18:25 ` Anton Khirnov
0 siblings, 2 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-11 17:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2974 bytes --]
On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:06:03AM -0300, James Almer wrote:
> On 11/10/2023 11:24 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 11:58:29PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
> > > On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 23:49, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 08:30:15PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 19:15, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:53:33PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> > > > > > > Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 19.41.53 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
> > > > > > [...]
> > > > > > > If you think some people should be added, as far as I am concerned, you are of
> > > > > > > course welcome to nudge them via private message to friendly remind them that
> > > > > > > they can nominate themselves.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so what i will do then is
> > > > > > If a developer was in the GA before || are just under the threshold but
> > > > > > active || are part of the infra teams and packaging
> > > > > > i will leave them in the list to be added (that is also what jb suggested)
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, this seems reasonable.
> > > > >
> > > > > > I will contact them and ask if they want to be in the GA and
> > > > >
> > > > > You should contact who you want, or think is necessary.
> > > > > But they should step forward and say so publicly that they are candidates.
> > [...]
> >
> > > Also, at that time, I did not bring a list of 20 candidates who are, for the most part, inactive.
> > > While asking "trust me, I will get their approval in private, but they will not speak on the mailing list".
> >
> > ok, maybe we should just slow down a bit delay the vote by a few days and
> > discuss this to reduce peoples anxiety? :)
> >
> > Lets take a step back and look at what i suggested and discuss this a bit first
> > I also have to say that this looks a bit like Xenophobia to me to be honest.
>
> How did you even get to that conclusion?
There was a swift and defensive reaction from multiple people when
i suggested to nominate several of the main authors of FFmpeg to the GA.
(Who many people have had no contact with for many years and many probably
never had)
People who interact regularly even if they dont like each other dont react
that way.
ive over the last decades seen this behavior commonly occur when one group is
confronted with the potential introduction to their territory of another group
they have had little recent contact.
This seems a fundamental, unconcious and instinctive reaction humans have.
I called it Xenophobia, cuz it seemed like a similar concept.
Do you disagree ? (not about the term but this sort of behavior is happening)
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend
to be. -- Socrates
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To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-11 17:28 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-11 18:02 ` Paul B Mahol
2023-11-11 18:40 ` James Almer
2023-11-11 18:25 ` Anton Khirnov
1 sibling, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Paul B Mahol @ 2023-11-11 18:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 6:29 PM Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:06:03AM -0300, James Almer wrote:
> > On 11/10/2023 11:24 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 11:58:29PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 23:49, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 08:30:15PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 19:15, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:53:33PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 19.41.53 EET Michael
> Niedermayer a écrit :
> > > > > > > [...]
> > > > > > > > If you think some people should be added, as far as I am
> concerned, you are of
> > > > > > > > course welcome to nudge them via private message to friendly
> remind them that
> > > > > > > > they can nominate themselves.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > so what i will do then is
> > > > > > > If a developer was in the GA before || are just under the
> threshold but
> > > > > > > active || are part of the infra teams and packaging
> > > > > > > i will leave them in the list to be added (that is also what
> jb suggested)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Of course, this seems reasonable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I will contact them and ask if they want to be in the GA and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You should contact who you want, or think is necessary.
> > > > > > But they should step forward and say so publicly that they are
> candidates.
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > > Also, at that time, I did not bring a list of 20 candidates who are,
> for the most part, inactive.
> > > > While asking "trust me, I will get their approval in private, but
> they will not speak on the mailing list".
> > >
> > > ok, maybe we should just slow down a bit delay the vote by a few days
> and
> > > discuss this to reduce peoples anxiety? :)
> > >
>
> > > Lets take a step back and look at what i suggested and discuss this a
> bit first
> > > I also have to say that this looks a bit like Xenophobia to me to be
> honest.
> >
> > How did you even get to that conclusion?
>
> There was a swift and defensive reaction from multiple people when
> i suggested to nominate several of the main authors of FFmpeg to the GA.
> (Who many people have had no contact with for many years and many probably
> never had)
>
> People who interact regularly even if they dont like each other dont react
> that way.
> ive over the last decades seen this behavior commonly occur when one group
> is
> confronted with the potential introduction to their territory of another
> group
> they have had little recent contact.
>
> This seems a fundamental, unconcious and instinctive reaction humans have.
> I called it Xenophobia, cuz it seemed like a similar concept.
>
> Do you disagree ? (not about the term but this sort of behavior is
> happening)
>
Do not try to input your projections onto us.
There is no point to infiltrate your spies into community.
Only people that give work to project can vote for project future, no
people that left project.
> thx
>
> [...]
> --
> Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
>
> The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend
> to be. -- Socrates
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-11 18:02 ` Paul B Mahol
@ 2023-11-11 18:40 ` James Almer
0 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: James Almer @ 2023-11-11 18:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ffmpeg-devel
On 11/11/2023 3:02 PM, Paul B Mahol wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 6:29 PM Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 12:06:03AM -0300, James Almer wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2023 11:24 PM, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
>>>> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 11:58:29PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 23:49, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 08:30:15PM +0100, Jean-Baptiste Kempf
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 9 Nov 2023, at 19:15, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 07:53:33PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 19.41.53 EET Michael
>> Niedermayer a écrit :
>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>> If you think some people should be added, as far as I am
>> concerned, you are of
>>>>>>>>> course welcome to nudge them via private message to friendly
>> remind them that
>>>>>>>>> they can nominate themselves.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so what i will do then is
>>>>>>>> If a developer was in the GA before || are just under the
>> threshold but
>>>>>>>> active || are part of the infra teams and packaging
>>>>>>>> i will leave them in the list to be added (that is also what
>> jb suggested)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, this seems reasonable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will contact them and ask if they want to be in the GA and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You should contact who you want, or think is necessary.
>>>>>>> But they should step forward and say so publicly that they are
>> candidates.
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>> Also, at that time, I did not bring a list of 20 candidates who are,
>> for the most part, inactive.
>>>>> While asking "trust me, I will get their approval in private, but
>> they will not speak on the mailing list".
>>>>
>>>> ok, maybe we should just slow down a bit delay the vote by a few days
>> and
>>>> discuss this to reduce peoples anxiety? :)
>>>>
>>
>>>> Lets take a step back and look at what i suggested and discuss this a
>> bit first
>>>> I also have to say that this looks a bit like Xenophobia to me to be
>> honest.
>>>
>>> How did you even get to that conclusion?
>>
>> There was a swift and defensive reaction from multiple people when
>> i suggested to nominate several of the main authors of FFmpeg to the GA.
>> (Who many people have had no contact with for many years and many probably
>> never had)
>>
>> People who interact regularly even if they dont like each other dont react
>> that way.
>> ive over the last decades seen this behavior commonly occur when one group
>> is
>> confronted with the potential introduction to their territory of another
>> group
>> they have had little recent contact.
>>
>> This seems a fundamental, unconcious and instinctive reaction humans have.
>> I called it Xenophobia, cuz it seemed like a similar concept.
>>
>> Do you disagree ? (not about the term but this sort of behavior is
>> happening)
>>
>
> Do not try to input your projections onto us.
>
> There is no point to infiltrate your spies into community.
You're throwing more fuel to the fire. Your email would have been fine
without this line. I asked you to tone things down and you go and write
this.
> Only people that give work to project can vote for project future, no
> people that left project.
If someone nominates them, and said nomination is accepted, then they
can participate. But if they left, it's likely that they don't want to
participate to begin with.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-11 17:28 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-11 18:02 ` Paul B Mahol
@ 2023-11-11 18:25 ` Anton Khirnov
2023-11-12 17:14 ` Michael Niedermayer
1 sibling, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Anton Khirnov @ 2023-11-11 18:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-11 18:28:54)
> There was a swift and defensive reaction from multiple people when
> i suggested to nominate several of the main authors of FFmpeg to the GA.
> (Who many people have had no contact with for many years and many probably
> never had)
>
> People who interact regularly even if they dont like each other dont react
> that way.
> ive over the last decades seen this behavior commonly occur when one group is
> confronted with the potential introduction to their territory of another group
> they have had little recent contact.
>
> This seems a fundamental, unconcious and instinctive reaction humans have.
> I called it Xenophobia, cuz it seemed like a similar concept.
>
> Do you disagree ? (not about the term but this sort of behavior is happening)
Consider the following alternative explanation. Our rules say:
The General Assembly is made up of active contributors.
Many of the people you have proposed for GA are by your own admission
inactive. In other words, you are deliberately trying to subvert the
intent of the rules. Why should it be surprising that people have a
strongly negative reaction to that?
Also, you have just implied that people disagreeing with you are
unthinking zombies driven by their subconscious insticts. That is a VERY
rude thing to say about someone.
--
Anton Khirnov
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-11 18:25 ` Anton Khirnov
@ 2023-11-12 17:14 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-12 17:53 ` Anton Khirnov
0 siblings, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-12 17:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2692 bytes --]
On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 07:25:13PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-11 18:28:54)
> > There was a swift and defensive reaction from multiple people when
> > i suggested to nominate several of the main authors of FFmpeg to the GA.
> > (Who many people have had no contact with for many years and many probably
> > never had)
> >
> > People who interact regularly even if they dont like each other dont react
> > that way.
> > ive over the last decades seen this behavior commonly occur when one group is
> > confronted with the potential introduction to their territory of another group
> > they have had little recent contact.
> >
> > This seems a fundamental, unconcious and instinctive reaction humans have.
> > I called it Xenophobia, cuz it seemed like a similar concept.
> >
> > Do you disagree ? (not about the term but this sort of behavior is happening)
>
> Consider the following alternative explanation. Our rules say:
> The General Assembly is made up of active contributors.
>
> Many of the people you have proposed for GA are by your own admission
> inactive.
yes. It is normal that "inactive" people have a vote.
Its true for every democratic country iam aware of.
But more so that the major Authors have a say in a General
assembly about their work.
> In other words, you are deliberately trying to subvert the
> intent of the rules.
no, the GA can change the rules entirely if it wants.
I can change neither the rules nor the GA. I can propose
20 people and the GA can tell me no an all.
what IS trying to subvert the process is people trying to
prevent a GA vote about it.
> Why should it be surprising that people have a
> strongly negative reaction to that?
i guess it was not that "surprising" if one thinks about it
>
> Also, you have just implied that people disagreeing with you are
> unthinking zombies driven by their subconscious insticts. That is a VERY
> rude thing to say about someone.
you are accusing me of something here that i have not said and not meant.
psychology is not about
"unthinking zombies driven by their subconscious insticts"
"Psychology is the study of mind and behavior in humans and non-humans.
Psychology includes the study of conscious and unconscious phenomena,
including feelings and thoughts."
Maybe it was a bad idea to discuss psychology during a already
heated mail thread.
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny
individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities. - Ayn Rand
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-12 17:14 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-12 17:53 ` Anton Khirnov
0 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Anton Khirnov @ 2023-11-12 17:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-11-12 18:14:09)
> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 07:25:13PM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> > In other words, you are deliberately trying to subvert the
> > intent of the rules.
>
> no, the GA can change the rules entirely if it wants.
> I can change neither the rules nor the GA. I can propose
> 20 people and the GA can tell me no an all.
Sure, the GA can change the rules through a collective decision. But
then if you want the rules changed, you should propose a vote on such a
change, not start disregarding the rules you do not like.
Though given that the option you proposed that would preserve the voting
rights for inactive developers was defeated by a large margin in the
vote we just had, it seems to me that most of the community does not
share your opinion.
> >
> > Also, you have just implied that people disagreeing with you are
> > unthinking zombies driven by their subconscious insticts. That is a VERY
> > rude thing to say about someone.
>
> you are accusing me of something here that i have not said and not meant.
What you said, literally:
> This seems a fundamental, unconcious and instinctive reaction humans have.
> I called it Xenophobia, cuz it seemed like a similar concept.
> Do you disagree ? (not about the term but this sort of behavior is happenin
In other words, you are saying that people who disagree with you must be
doing so for unconscious and/or instinctive reasons, rather than as a
deliberate consciously thought-out choice.
> psychology is not about
> "unthinking zombies driven by their subconscious insticts"
>
> "Psychology is the study of mind and behavior in humans and non-humans.
> Psychology includes the study of conscious and unconscious phenomena,
> including feelings and thoughts."
> Maybe it was a bad idea to discuss psychology during a already
> heated mail thread.
Discussing psychology in the abstract is a fine campfire topic, but
totally off-topic on this ML and especially so in this thread.
Speculating on psychological processes of actual specific people
* in a public forum
* without their consent
* with whom you currently resolving a serious disagrement
is EXTREMELY inappropriate and rude. Please never do that again.
Anyway, it seems to me that this thread has exhausted itself. As I said
previously in this thread - I do not object to your proposing whomever
you like, as long as the people in question actively agree to being on
the ballot.
I will expect you to send a list of these people before next Friday.
--
Anton Khirnov
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 17:04 ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
2023-11-09 17:41 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-10 10:54 ` Hendrik Leppkes
2023-11-10 12:24 ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
1 sibling, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Hendrik Leppkes @ 2023-11-10 10:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 6:04 PM Rémi Denis-Courmont <remi@remlab.net> wrote:
>
> Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 18.50.52 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
> > that said, i checked ML subscribers and found
> > 16 of the people above to be currently subscribed with email addresses
> > that i found by greping their name. (not posting the list due to privacy
> > concerns)
>
> Thing is, if they are subscribed and still don't ask to be added to the GA, I
> don't think they should be "volunteered" by someone else. They are of course
> welcome to apply.
>
I don't see the big difference here for people that meet an arbitrary
commit threshold, they get automatically added and not asked, but if
you are slightly under you don't.
By that logic, everyone should step forward and not be "volunteered"
by a script of all things.
- Hendrik
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-10 10:54 ` Hendrik Leppkes
@ 2023-11-10 12:24 ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
2023-11-10 19:31 ` Michael Niedermayer
0 siblings, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Rémi Denis-Courmont @ 2023-11-10 12:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
Le 10 novembre 2023 12:54:30 GMT+02:00, Hendrik Leppkes <h.leppkes@gmail.com> a écrit :
>On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 6:04 PM Rémi Denis-Courmont <remi@remlab.net> wrote:
>>
>> Le torstaina 9. marraskuuta 2023, 18.50.52 EET Michael Niedermayer a écrit :
>> > that said, i checked ML subscribers and found
>> > 16 of the people above to be currently subscribed with email addresses
>> > that i found by greping their name. (not posting the list due to privacy
>> > concerns)
>>
>> Thing is, if they are subscribed and still don't ask to be added to the GA, I
>> don't think they should be "volunteered" by someone else. They are of course
>> welcome to apply.
>>
>
>I don't see the big difference here for people that meet an arbitrary
>commit threshold, they get automatically added and not asked, but if
>you are slightly under you don't.
To the extent that the people who are automatically selected committed (most of) their own patches, they should have known that that would cause them to become GA members.
There is indeed however a problem that somebody whose patches get merged by a third party could be induced into the GA without even knowing. That's probably concerns few if any contributiors in actual practice fortunately.
>By that logic, everyone should step forward and not be "volunteered"
>by a script of all things.
Actually, kinda yes? The difference though is that those people aren't subject to being voted into the GA. So this can be mostly fixed by just allowing people to confirm that they want to be in the GA, or at least allow people to resign from the GA discretionarily.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-10 12:24 ` Rémi Denis-Courmont
@ 2023-11-10 19:31 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-10 19:42 ` Martin Storsjö
2023-11-10 20:21 ` Vittorio Giovara
0 siblings, 2 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-10 19:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1048 bytes --]
On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 02:24:23PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
> [...] or at least allow people to resign from the GA discretionarily.
I think this makes alot more sense
Asking "I want to be in the GA" fully in public is something thats a very
high bar for some people. It certainly is a very low bar for others yes
If we imaginge every citizen in a country would have to publically demand
in front of the whole citizenship their vote right, explain why they should
have the right and then be voted on by all before receiving the right.
Thats not something normally required to receive voting rights.
I think this bar is too high. Especially for a project that just a moment
ago complained about sustainability.
We should welcome everyone who wants to participate not setup barriers
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny
individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities. - Ayn Rand
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-10 19:31 ` Michael Niedermayer
@ 2023-11-10 19:42 ` Martin Storsjö
2023-11-10 19:50 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-10 20:21 ` Vittorio Giovara
1 sibling, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Martin Storsjö @ 2023-11-10 19:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
On Fri, 10 Nov 2023, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> If we imaginge every citizen in a country would have to publically demand
> in front of the whole citizenship their vote right, explain why they should
> have the right and then be voted on by all before receiving the right.
Nobody said that there needs to be a long explanation of why oneself
should be considered. Just a "hi, please include me in the vote for extra
GA members" on the mailing list is certainly enough.
// Martin
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-10 19:42 ` Martin Storsjö
@ 2023-11-10 19:50 ` Michael Niedermayer
0 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Michael Niedermayer @ 2023-11-10 19:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1038 bytes --]
On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 09:42:19PM +0200, Martin Storsjö wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
>
> > If we imaginge every citizen in a country would have to publically demand
> > in front of the whole citizenship their vote right, explain why they should
> > have the right and then be voted on by all before receiving the right.
>
> Nobody said that there needs to be a long explanation of why oneself should
> be considered. Just a "hi, please include me in the vote for extra GA
> members" on the mailing list is certainly enough.
If one says nothing about themselfs, who would vote for them ?
Or do you commonly vote for people who just say "hi iam X please
vote for me" ?
only famous people can pull that off
thx
[...]
--
Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
Let us carefully observe those good qualities wherein our enemies excel us
and endeavor to excel them, by avoiding what is faulty, and imitating what
is excellent in them. -- Plutarch
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-10 19:31 ` Michael Niedermayer
2023-11-10 19:42 ` Martin Storsjö
@ 2023-11-10 20:21 ` Vittorio Giovara
1 sibling, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Vittorio Giovara @ 2023-11-10 20:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 2:31 PM Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 02:24:23PM +0200, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote:
>
> > [...] or at least allow people to resign from the GA discretionarily.
>
> I think this makes alot more sense
>
> Asking "I want to be in the GA" fully in public is something thats a very
> high bar for some people. It certainly is a very low bar for others yes
>
> If we imaginge every citizen in a country would have to publically demand
> in front of the whole citizenship their vote right, explain why they should
> have the right and then be voted on by all before receiving the right.
> Thats not something normally required to receive voting rights.
>
No, that is not required at all, but what is required is for people willing
to vote is to register, and you cannot register someone else, unless for
election fraud.
Am I missing something or am I taking crazy pills?
I think this bar is too high. Especially for a project that just a moment
> ago complained about sustainability.
> We should welcome everyone who wants to participate not setup barriers
But we are welcoming everyone! And having a reliable process like it's
being established *is* a way to being more sustainable.
At the same time, we also need to get stuff done, so while the community
noted your feedback and has taken proper action for it (delaying the vote
and inviting people to candidate themselves) there is nothing else to be
done about it in my opinion, so I'd suggest moving on.
--
Vittorio
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 11:55 ` Michael Niedermayer
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2023-11-09 12:21 ` Anton Khirnov
@ 2023-11-09 12:45 ` Paul B Mahol
2023-11-09 22:00 ` Alexander Strasser
2023-11-10 10:41 ` Tobias Rapp
5 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Paul B Mahol @ 2023-11-09 12:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 12:55 PM Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 10:44:12AM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> > As nobody expressed a preference, the vote will start next Monday
> > (2023-11-13). It should run for a week, and will be followed by TC/CC
> > elections.
> >
> > The only extra GA candidate I see proposed so far is Ronald. If anyone
> > wants to suggest further people, please do so in this thread ASAP.
>
> IMHO the question of the relation of the list of people who could vote
> in the last GA vote and the people who where in the general assembly
> in 2020 should be awnsered before further votes.
> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2023-November/316609.html
>
> If the current GA stays as it is, then i propose the following people
> (this list was quickly made and certainly has omisions and possibly errors,
> check anything thats important to you!)
>
> The presumed 2020 General assembly as well as people who have subtantial
> contributions over the lifetime of the project where the source of this
> list
>
> Fabrice Bellard (Founder of the project over 600 commits in FFmpeg)
> Aman Karmani (17 authored commits in 2020-2023, recently active in
> 2023-June and work all over the codebase)
> Baptiste Coudurier (Pays for our fate server since forever, maintains 15
> things in MAINTAINERs, is the the copyright of 56 files, over 1900 commits
> in FFmpeg)
> Moritz Barsnick (Member of the 2020 GA but was not on jbs list)
> Lauri Kasanen (Linux / PowerPC maintainer)
> Dale Curtis (14 commits in 2020 was in the 2020-GA)
> Alexander Strasser (Root admin, just recently reported that he could not
> vote even though he was in teh 2020-GA, 3 things in MAINTAINERs)
> foo86 (maintainer and author of dca*, dolby_e*, dtsdec, s337m)
> Huiwen Ren (8 matches in the codebase of his name, avs2* and
> related things maintainer)
> Martin Vignali (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2019 because of
> hostility)
>
Was hostile very much, even pushed extremely hostile commit in codebase
that is still kept.
> Lou Logan (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2020, also in the
> 2020-GA but not on jbs list)
> Matthieu Bouron (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, recently active in 2022, 5
> entries in MAINTAINERs, 25 in copyrights)
> Ruiling Song (vf_tonemap_opencl maintainer, added SIMD code to
> various bits of code, last active in git in 2020)
> John Stebbins (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, last active in git in
> 2020, 1 copyright match)
> Ting Fu (last active in April 2023, 24 commits in 2021-2023, )
> Tobias Rapp (vf_readvitc mainatiner, last commit in Jul 2023, 88
> commits in FFmpeg)
> Shiyou Yin (MIPS & LoongArch maintainer, 24 matches for his name
> in the source, last commit May 2023)
> Reimar Döffinger (over 1400 commits in FFmpeg, root admin and last
> commit in Oct 2023, 49 matches for his name in the codebase)
> Aurelien Jacobs (over 1000 commits in FFmpeg, 13 entries in
> MAINTAINERs, 70 copyright line matches)
> Hendrik Leppkes (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 2 entries in MAINTAINERs,
> 4 copyrights, last commit in Jul 2023)
> Vitor Sessak (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 28 copyright matches)
> Kostya Shishkov (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 162 copyright matches)
> Ramiro Polla (over 600 commits in FFmpeg, 5 matches in MAINTAINERs,
> 22 copyright matches)
> Alex Converse (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 32 copyright matches)
> Janne Grunau (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 24 copyright matches)
> Andreas Cadhalpun (over 400 commits in FFmpeg, 2 copyright matches)
>
> thx
>
> [...]
> --
> Michael GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB
>
> I know you won't believe me, but the highest form of Human Excellence is
> to question oneself and others. -- Socrates
> _______________________________________________
> ffmpeg-devel mailing list
> ffmpeg-devel@ffmpeg.org
> https://ffmpeg.org/mailman/listinfo/ffmpeg-devel
>
> To unsubscribe, visit link above, or email
> ffmpeg-devel-request@ffmpeg.org with subject "unsubscribe".
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 11:55 ` Michael Niedermayer
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2023-11-09 12:45 ` Paul B Mahol
@ 2023-11-09 22:00 ` Alexander Strasser
2023-11-10 0:18 ` James Almer
2023-11-10 10:41 ` Tobias Rapp
5 siblings, 1 reply; 70+ messages in thread
From: Alexander Strasser @ 2023-11-09 22:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: FFmpeg development discussions and patches
On 2023-11-09 12:55 +0100, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 10:44:12AM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> > As nobody expressed a preference, the vote will start next Monday
> > (2023-11-13). It should run for a week, and will be followed by TC/CC
> > elections.
> >
> > The only extra GA candidate I see proposed so far is Ronald. If anyone
> > wants to suggest further people, please do so in this thread ASAP.
>
> IMHO the question of the relation of the list of people who could vote
> in the last GA vote and the people who where in the general assembly
> in 2020 should be awnsered before further votes.
> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2023-November/316609.html
>
> If the current GA stays as it is, then i propose the following people
> (this list was quickly made and certainly has omisions and possibly errors,
> check anything thats important to you!)
>
> The presumed 2020 General assembly as well as people who have subtantial
> contributions over the lifetime of the project where the source of this list
>
> Fabrice Bellard (Founder of the project over 600 commits in FFmpeg)
> Aman Karmani (17 authored commits in 2020-2023, recently active in 2023-June and work all over the codebase)
> Baptiste Coudurier (Pays for our fate server since forever, maintains 15 things in MAINTAINERs, is the the copyright of 56 files, over 1900 commits in FFmpeg)
> Moritz Barsnick (Member of the 2020 GA but was not on jbs list)
> Lauri Kasanen (Linux / PowerPC maintainer)
> Dale Curtis (14 commits in 2020 was in the 2020-GA)
> Alexander Strasser (Root admin, just recently reported that he could not vote even though he was in teh 2020-GA, 3 things in MAINTAINERs)
I want to be an additional (extra) member in the GA.
I have
* commits in FFmpeg and reviewed patches (authored myself and applied for others)
* spent time and effort in discussions on the mailing lists, issue trackers and IRC channels
* admin rights to some infra structure of the project
I also took part and helped organize FFmpeg representation in quite some FOSS
conferences in Germany. Also was a few times at VDD.
My first contact to the general multimedia community was around 2000.
The first interaction with open source multimedia projects was around
2004.
In the recent times I have not participated on the MLs (and IRC) much
as I don't have much spare time after work.
I'm hoping to continue supporting the project and help it stay alive
and as awesome as it has been already over the many years since it
took off.
Thanks for your consideration,
Alexander Strasser
> foo86 (maintainer and author of dca*, dolby_e*, dtsdec, s337m)
> Huiwen Ren (8 matches in the codebase of his name, avs2* and related things maintainer)
> Martin Vignali (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2019 because of hostility)
> Lou Logan (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, left in 2020, also in the 2020-GA but not on jbs list)
> Matthieu Bouron (over 200 commits in FFmpeg, recently active in 2022, 5 entries in MAINTAINERs, 25 in copyrights)
> Ruiling Song (vf_tonemap_opencl maintainer, added SIMD code to various bits of code, last active in git in 2020)
> John Stebbins (over 100 commits in FFmpeg, last active in git in 2020, 1 copyright match)
> Ting Fu (last active in April 2023, 24 commits in 2021-2023, )
> Tobias Rapp (vf_readvitc mainatiner, last commit in Jul 2023, 88 commits in FFmpeg)
> Shiyou Yin (MIPS & LoongArch maintainer, 24 matches for his name in the source, last commit May 2023)
> Reimar Döffinger (over 1400 commits in FFmpeg, root admin and last commit in Oct 2023, 49 matches for his name in the codebase)
> Aurelien Jacobs (over 1000 commits in FFmpeg, 13 entries in MAINTAINERs, 70 copyright line matches)
> Hendrik Leppkes (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 2 entries in MAINTAINERs, 4 copyrights, last commit in Jul 2023)
> Vitor Sessak (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 28 copyright matches)
> Kostya Shishkov (over 900 commits in FFmpeg, 162 copyright matches)
> Ramiro Polla (over 600 commits in FFmpeg, 5 matches in MAINTAINERs, 22 copyright matches)
> Alex Converse (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 32 copyright matches)
> Janne Grunau (over 500 commits in FFmpeg, 24 copyright matches)
> Andreas Cadhalpun (over 400 commits in FFmpeg, 2 copyright matches)
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 22:00 ` Alexander Strasser
@ 2023-11-10 0:18 ` James Almer
0 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: James Almer @ 2023-11-10 0:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ffmpeg-devel
On 11/9/2023 7:00 PM, Alexander Strasser wrote:
> On 2023-11-09 12:55 +0100, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 10:44:12AM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
>>> As nobody expressed a preference, the vote will start next Monday
>>> (2023-11-13). It should run for a week, and will be followed by TC/CC
>>> elections.
>>>
>>> The only extra GA candidate I see proposed so far is Ronald. If anyone
>>> wants to suggest further people, please do so in this thread ASAP.
>>
>> IMHO the question of the relation of the list of people who could vote
>> in the last GA vote and the people who where in the general assembly
>> in 2020 should be awnsered before further votes.
>> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2023-November/316609.html
>>
>> If the current GA stays as it is, then i propose the following people
>> (this list was quickly made and certainly has omisions and possibly errors,
>> check anything thats important to you!)
>>
>> The presumed 2020 General assembly as well as people who have subtantial
>> contributions over the lifetime of the project where the source of this list
>>
>> Fabrice Bellard (Founder of the project over 600 commits in FFmpeg)
>> Aman Karmani (17 authored commits in 2020-2023, recently active in 2023-June and work all over the codebase)
>> Baptiste Coudurier (Pays for our fate server since forever, maintains 15 things in MAINTAINERs, is the the copyright of 56 files, over 1900 commits in FFmpeg)
>> Moritz Barsnick (Member of the 2020 GA but was not on jbs list)
>> Lauri Kasanen (Linux / PowerPC maintainer)
>> Dale Curtis (14 commits in 2020 was in the 2020-GA)
>
>
>> Alexander Strasser (Root admin, just recently reported that he could not vote even though he was in teh 2020-GA, 3 things in MAINTAINERs)
>
> I want to be an additional (extra) member in the GA.
>
> I have
> * commits in FFmpeg and reviewed patches (authored myself and applied for others)
> * spent time and effort in discussions on the mailing lists, issue trackers and IRC channels
> * admin rights to some infra structure of the project
>
> I also took part and helped organize FFmpeg representation in quite some FOSS
> conferences in Germany. Also was a few times at VDD.
>
> My first contact to the general multimedia community was around 2000.
> The first interaction with open source multimedia projects was around
> 2004.
>
> In the recent times I have not participated on the MLs (and IRC) much
> as I don't have much spare time after work.
>
> I'm hoping to continue supporting the project and help it stay alive
> and as awesome as it has been already over the many years since it
> took off.
>
>
> Thanks for your consideration,
> Alexander Strasser
Of course.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread
* Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [ANNOUNCE] upcoming vote: extra members for GA
2023-11-09 11:55 ` Michael Niedermayer
` (4 preceding siblings ...)
2023-11-09 22:00 ` Alexander Strasser
@ 2023-11-10 10:41 ` Tobias Rapp
5 siblings, 0 replies; 70+ messages in thread
From: Tobias Rapp @ 2023-11-10 10:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: ffmpeg-devel
On 09/11/2023 12:55, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2023 at 10:44:12AM +0100, Anton Khirnov wrote:
>> As nobody expressed a preference, the vote will start next Monday
>> (2023-11-13). It should run for a week, and will be followed by TC/CC
>> elections.
>>
>> The only extra GA candidate I see proposed so far is Ronald. If anyone
>> wants to suggest further people, please do so in this thread ASAP.
> IMHO the question of the relation of the list of people who could vote
> in the last GA vote and the people who where in the general assembly
> in 2020 should be awnsered before further votes.
> https://lists.ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2023-November/316609.html
>
> If the current GA stays as it is, then i propose the following people
> (this list was quickly made and certainly has omisions and possibly errors,
> check anything thats important to you!)
>
> [...]
> Tobias Rapp (vf_readvitc mainatiner, last commit in Jul 2023, 88 commits in FFmpeg)
I only do small, trivial contributions, with large time gaps in between.
Will not propose myself as an extra member of the GA for this vote.
Regards, Tobias
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 70+ messages in thread