Re: [FFmpeg-devel] [RFC/PATCH] fftools/ffmpeg: stop printing PSNR information in status report

[Anton Khirnov <anton@khirnov.net>]

Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-04-20 00:12:48)
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 11:06:09PM +0200, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> > Quoting Michael Niedermayer (2023-04-19 22:53:02)
> > > On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 09:48:32PM +0200, Anton Khirnov wrote:
> > > > When an encoder exports sum-of-squared-differences information in
> > > > encoded packets, print_report() will print PSNR information in the
> > > > status line. However,
> > > 
> > > > * the code computing PSNR assumes 8bit 420 video and prints incorrect
> > > >   values otherwise; there are no issues on trac about this
> > > 
> > > Are the values in the "otherwise" case maybe good enough so they
> > > worked for people with noone noticing ?
> > 
> > While working on this with a 10bit sample I was suprised this code and
> > vf_psnr showed significantly different values (IIRC not even the first
> > digit was accurate) and it took me a while to realize the scaling made
> > the assumptions it did.
> > 
> > > > * only a few encoders (namely aom, vpx, mpegvideo, snow) export this
> > > >   information; other often-used encoders such as libx26[45] do not
> > > >   export this, even though they could
> > > > 
> > > > This suggests that this feature is not useful and it is better to remove
> > > > it rather than spend effort on fixing it.
> > > > ---
> > > > I needed to resolve this code's interaction with encoders as a part of
> > > > my multithreading work and spent a few hours on it. Making it work
> > > > correctly in all cases seems nontrivial and duplicates a lot of the
> > > > logic from vf_psnr.
> > > 
> > > Can anything missing in vf_psnr be added into it and then vf_psnr used ?
> > > I agree that duplicating PSNR code and logic is bad
> > 
> > Nothing is missing in vf_psnr AFAIK, the difference is that these values
> > are produced directly by the encoder, so you don't need a
> > decoding+filtering pass to obtain the numbers.
> 
> That sounds like a missing feature.
> vf_psnr cannot use the encoder values, it always needs to recompute them.
> The encoder could export these values in metadata and vf_psnr could
> then check if the frame pairs already have their psnr computed and use
> that.

In general I agree that making those values more widely usable would be
good, but there's a number of issues that would need to be addressed
first:
* encoders export encoded packet properties, but AFAIK no muxer can
  store them
* even if a muxer could store them or encoded packets could be directly
  passed to a decoder (this should actually be possible once I'm done
  with this work), the data is only defined for packets and not frames
* possibly something like showinfo would be more suited for displaying
  this
None of these are insurmountable, but it's a fair amount of work.
Patches welcome.

> > The question more broadly is - what is this supposed to be useful for?
> > PSNR is a highly flawed metric and AFAIU state of the art moved several
> > generations away from it. And for a quick-and-dirty quality estimate,
> > the bitrate and QP might be more informative for most users, and are
> > supported by more encoders. So what is the point of printing this
> > information?
> 
> The "problem" isnt psnr specific
> having a filter which could provide another metric and be able to use
> encoder supplied data when available or compute them from encoder input +
> decoded images in a way that is automatic would be useful
> It would mean a single syntax a user could use to get the metric he wants
> while using the optimal implementation

The problem is PSNR-specific code in ffmpeg CLI that is blocking my
work. Sounds to me we are in agreement that this code should not be
there.

-- 
Anton Khirnov
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